Irish Seafires

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Comet
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Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:08 pm

Hi.
A friend is building the Seafire 1/48 kit and wants to finish it in Irish colours. He wanted to know did it operate using the wing folding when in Gormanstown. I couldnt help him as I dont know. Anyone help?
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Comet

vanman
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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by vanman » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:37 pm

The wings were pinned in position and couldn't be folded. This was specified by the Air Corps. Now in fact there is a picture of an Air Corps Seafire with wings folded in a hangar at Baldonnel but that was after they were retired. Tony Kearns who is a noted Irish aviation historian answered this very question on another forum some time ago:
I have ten pages listing the Air Corps requirements to Vickers Armstrong. It actually states that the wing folding mechanism was to be pinned. The aircraft were extensively modified to Spitfire Vc standard, indeed many pilots recorded their flights in their log books as Spitfires. The Air Corps had no requirement for wing folding as there was ample hangar space for the 11 Seafires. What that picture that you refer to shows, is when they were withdrawn from service and stored at Baldonnel,
He also had some choice things to say about another Irish author mistakenly believed they could be folded. So it would be inaccurate to depict the Seafire with folded wings unless the model is depicting one after retirement.

Now for your next controversy, the colour scheme. I always maintain it was light Slate Grey, BS639. Others differ. :twisted:

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:57 pm

Cheers Vanman I will pass on the info, does the light slate grey appear as green on the completed model as I have been told that they had a green finish.
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Comet

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by vanman » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:23 pm

Well it looks green to me despite it's name. Plus I did have a piece of skin from an Air Corps Seafire which matched the light slate grey which was produced by Hannants. The same piece of metal had interior green on it which was quite different. Unfortunately I misplaced it and now everyone thinks I made it all up. Which is typical when it comes aircraft colours. Even physical evidence is disputed.

The logic of it is also inescapable. They were naval aircraft. The Air Corps specified a light green/grey. What would be the logical colour to hand? Exactly!

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:11 pm

Tks again Vanman. So it seems not be a straightforward green. I have passed on that reference to him, he lives in Uk so he will have no problem getting the paint in Hannants. Would that historian guy you mentioned know the exact colour or perhaps he can be contacted by my UK buddie? Pity you dont have the piece showing the colour, any way thanks again.
Cheers
Comet

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by stovepipe » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:53 pm

Hi all,
The lads in Dromod had a piece of original Spitfire cowling so that might be worth a look.If they still have it, of course.
regards
Stovepipe

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:59 pm

Cheers stovepipe but what is Dromod?
I had a look at the grey pencils website some very nice stuff there, there is a Seafire profile shown and it has its wings folded which would suggest that the wings were folded when in service. Is the green shown the correct shade? sorry for all the questions, thanks guys.
Comet

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by kilo delta » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:05 am

Dromod....... The Cavan & Leitrim Rail museum is located here. They are also home to a sizeable collection of aviation exhibits. There are some pics in the photo section on these forums....none, sadly, of the Spitfire cowling unfortunately.

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by vanman » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:19 pm

Then the Grey pencils profile would be in error for an aircraft in service. Tony Kearns was quite adamant about it and I would be inclined to agree. As for the colours in the profile, well it looks close to what I remember on the model I built and painted based on the piece I had. I still have it somewhere but unavailable due to a recent house move. The artist I believe has got it right by using a greener tone in the Spitfire TR9 drawings. The Dromod cowling might be a red herring if it's actually a Spitfire cowling rather than Seafire.

This would be so much easier if only the Air Corps used standard camouflage schemes. Why they and the rest of the army had to paint everything from tanks to jeeps in that puce green colour is anybody's guess. :wink:

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by stovepipe » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 am

Hi there,
The Dromod cowling is, AFAIK, the top engine cowling of a TR9, so it is green.I thought Tony had clarified the actual shade and manufacturer's number of the green paint on the TR9s on Irish Airpics.I'm not sure at all what shade of grey the Seafires were. All I know for certain is that all this was done to death when 161 reappeared in Air Corps colours a few years ago and the first thing people did was moan about the shade! As for Army paint schemes, that's anybody's guess.Quite often, they got painted with what was on hand.Officially, they were meant to be Olive Drab, but there were many variantions of shade.If you ever see some of the recent-ish purchases of Transit vans and other light soft-skins, they have a very dark, almost muddy brown shade.
regards
Stovepipe

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:45 pm

Tks again guys, I will send the info to my buddie in UK but I think that he is able to read it over there on line.
He has just sent me an e- mail with a page attached from a book The Irish Air Corps an Illustrated Guide, it shows a Seafire and it looks more grey than green nothing like the Grey Pencils one. It gets worse and beginning to be sorry I took this on. Anyways thanks again guys you have been a great help.
Comet

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by vanman » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:41 pm

It gets worse and beginning to be sorry I took this on.
You won't be the first or the last. :D It's a bit of a minefield. Incidentally you can't rely on the colours in the illustrated guide to the Air Corps. There are some glaring mistakes particularly with some of the camouflage schemes. But the book itself is excellent. It's easy to get all worked up about the exact colours but they often vary and fade in service as Stovepipe pointed out. Besides who is to say your model is inaccurate because unless you have a sample of the paint like I had. It's hard to prove.

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:05 pm

Yes indeed it appears to be a minefield. I did a search and found that the person mentioned Mr Tony Kearns has posted on this forum perhaps he might see it and and be kind enough to make a contribution.
Cheers
Comet

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by niteowl2000 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:00 pm

Hi, Comet, you might like to give this web reference to your friend, www.ipmsireland.com/forum, there is a number of useful guides there. Humbrol numbrol 78 is quite close but obviously would be faded from use. Also you may look at i believe FS 34227 colour may be a starting point.

Regards
Paul H.

Secretary
IPMS Ireland
Dublin Chapter

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Re: Irish Seafires

Post by Comet » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:34 pm

Cheers for that Paul H, my buddie in UK sent me a e mail to say that he has seen your post.
Cheers
Comet

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