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How could Dublin ever possibly co-exist with Weston bizport?

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:34 pm
by Biturbo
Having seen all the soul-searching on other threads about how Dublin ATC could never countenance another active field east of the Shannon without overloading (notwithstanding the use of the BAL VOR on standard departure routings), I thought I'd share this picture of the local scenery I took from a C172 as I climbed out of KSQL in July headed upstate.

And no, we didn't have to file an hour in advance. We just talked to Clearance Delivery prior to start-up.

More details on this lovely field at


Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:17 pm
I too fly in the States every day(KPHI)area and knowing ATC here quite well, it makes Irish ATC look so silly for want of a better word. I keep saying it all the time...the lads should take a trip out to Oshkosh for a few theres real ATC (Professional).......Irish ATC holding a Cessna in a holding pattern, or short of the active, for half an hour while an aer fungus 737 is on an eighty mile final.....what a bunch of "crap"......

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:29 pm
by Eddie Dillon
RV-BLUE, you should say, Cork ATC keep Cessnas in holding patterns etc etc, they like to do things differently down there you see! Only kidding biys. Now up in SNN (or anywhere else in Irl for that matter), things are done right.Theres none of that 80 mile final crap (and I'd say the amount of times it happens in Cork are minimal too) and they're as professional as any of your Oshkosh boys.What is it, something like 400 aircarft a day they handle? You think 'amateurs' would be up to that? Get real.

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:53 pm
[quote="Eddie Dillon"]they're as professional as any of your Oshkosh boys.
I'm sure they are....but do they want to be as efficent as the lads at Oskosh....I think not....."work overload" syndrome...... :roll:

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:45 pm
by redrebel
I hate to put a spanner in thne works here lads but perhaps the reason Dub atc put you on an extended down wind is due to the fact that during the hours of VFR ops they also happen to be at their busiest trtying to enforce 3-mile seperation between aircraft on approach.I aint no expert but trying to intergrate a single engined 2 seater aircraft with a piss poor speed incomparison to various jet aircraft who will monster the distance between a slow no1 and a jet no2 is not as piss easy as you might like to think it is .Also airlines arent slow in bitchen when they are burning tonnes of fuel in an approach sequence as opposed to a piston driven motor.As for the yank atc well they do a fine job concidering the age of their systems but we should just as proud of our own boys who handle 70% of all north atlantic traffic in the high level sectors in Shannon(GOD BLESS THE IAA annual rerport for that info).Perhaps they should haul ass to shannon and dublin to see how you upgrade an atc system without going over budget and overtime (also on the IAA website).In conclusion boys if you wanna fly into big busy aerodomes than you really have to remeber that its the airliners pay for thae atc service and they willl be giving precidenvce no matter how important we may feel as we go merrily on our way at 120knts IAS. :D :D :D :D

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:26 am
by Biturbo
I would disagree. If I were to fly into Dublin (and by the way 120kts is VNE for me), I will not be appearing along an airway in the middle of the Irish Sea at FL120 en route to the VOR. I will show up at the western zone boundary at 2000 ft. Maynooth would be nice as a starting point. I can womble up to Trim if you would prefer. Greystones would be best of all.

I will not be looking to muscle my way into the queue for 10/28. I will not even come within 10nm of its extended centreline. A right hand circuit for 11/29 would do nicely. Even an land and hold short for 16 from a northerly approach is good.

With this in mind, I don't know why we couldn't have approach patterns for VFR traffic taking advantages of lesser-utilised (or unutilised) facilities. If I can fly over KLAX and KSFO with ease (see above for evidence) and along the western side of Manhattan in Class G underneath La Guardia and Newark airspace without giving any controller any additional workload whatsoever, why can't something similar be arranged here?

I don't see why the IAA should be worried about idiot Cessna pilots straying into the path of the jet jockeys. Last time I looked I had fulfilled all of the legal requirements including ongoing revalidation training to permit me to act as pilot in command of an aircraft in JAA airspace. Why not give me a clearly defined VFR corridor to play in (like Manchester or Liverpool) and punish any transgressions if they occur like a proper regulator?

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:51 am
Well said, the fact is they just could'nt be bothered, thats what is called "common sense", as far as useing another runway. One would have to believe that they dont have the sequencing abilitys to do that. As far as Shannon handling all the north Atlantic...please, straight and level at 35,000.....whoop de do......bravo.....ifthey can do it here it can be done there....reality bites.

Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:57 pm
by EI-ei.o
well biturbo (Idiot cessna pilots) thats really nice.
did you learn to fly in a 737 yourself.

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:31 pm
by Biturbo
EI-ei.o wrote:well biturbo (Idiot cessna pilots) thats really nice.
did you learn to fly in a 737 yourself.

Welcome to the forum EI-EI.O.

I think you failed to pick up on the self-deprecation in my remarks above. The idiot remark was reflective of the occasionally disparaging attitude of ATC to spamcans, rather than an attack on their pilots.

If you had bought the magazine this month (the picture above should be a bit of a giveaway) you would know that not only did I learn on little Cessnas, I'm actually the proud owner of one. The nearest I get to the controls of a 737 is flying business class on occasion.

Happy Christmas.

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:40 pm
by Rallye EIBFP
Course EISN do it right!

Generally Shamrocks do ask for a long finals, they dont get it. 15 miles is usually the max, and even if they want that they have to give way to a stream of Ryanairs and a C172!

Hows a goin Shane hav not heard from you in a long time :wink: