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How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:25 pm
by Fenian
Hello everyone,

So given that the Aerlingus Cadetship is few and far between and its gone for another few years, where are Irish pilots going to become an airline pilot?
I have my PPL, and I was wondering where do I start/go from here in order to be an airline pilot based in Ireland?

I need a bit of help or guidance here, from what I think the first stop is to get the First Class Medical from an AeMc (AeroMedical Center).
But then, after that where are Irish people going to do the CPL/IR/ATPL? Are they doing it in Ireland, and if not then where? and why?

Does that then mean, say you go to Spain or Belgium, then you have to get another EASA Class 1 medical? And then what happens when you come back to Ireland?

It just seems very unclear so if someone knows please let me know. Years ago a lot of aspiring pilots went to the USA, it was cheaper and straightforward, now it seems they are no longer doing that because they would have to convert the FAA ATPL into an EU EASA ATPL which I heard is an aweful lot of hassle.

Any thoughts or advice?

Re: How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
by mark
Hi Fenian,

Lot's of questions there! As you say, the first step is to go and get a Class 1 medical. Have you decided whether you're going to go the integrated route or modular route? Lot's or pro's and con's to each but the best option can only be chosen by the individual themselves.

If it's integrated, your only options in Ireland are National Flight Centre (NFC) in Weston or Atlantic Flight Training Academy (AFTA) in Cork.

If you want to go integrated, you can do your PPL at any club or school in the country that offer an EASA PPL. You'll then need to do the ATPL written exams as distance learning while you're hour building. After that, you'll have to go to either of the two schools above to do the CPL, ME and IR.

You'll then need an MCC course which can be done at Simtech or AFTA.

Some useful links:
http://www.nfc.ie
https://afta.ie/mentorship-ryanair/
https://simtech.ie/

If you let me know if you're interested in modular or integrated I'll flesh out the answer a bit more.

Hope this helps,
Mark

Re: How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:21 pm
by Fenian
mark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm
Hi Fenian,

Lot's of questions there! As you say, the first step is to go and get a Class 1 medical. Have you decided whether you're going to go the integrated route or modular route? Lot's or pro's and con's to each but the best option can only be chosen by the individual themselves.

If it's integrated, your only options in Ireland are National Flight Centre (NFC) in Weston or Atlantic Flight Training Academy (AFTA) in Cork.

If you want to go integrated, you can do your PPL at any club or school in the country that offer an EASA PPL. You'll then need to do the ATPL written exams as distance learning while you're hour building. After that, you'll have to go to either of the two schools above to do the CPL, ME and IR.

You'll then need an MCC course which can be done at Simtech or AFTA.

Some useful links:
http://www.nfc.ie
https://afta.ie/mentorship-ryanair/
https://simtech.ie/

If you let me know if you're interested in modular or integrated I'll flesh out the answer a bit more.

Hope this helps,
Mark
Hi Mark
Thanks for the reply and advice. So I’ve already got my FAA PPL at least, so I don’t know if that would even be useful or count officially towards more than experience with the EASA and all.

I am currently in the US, and have the ability to do it modular with my local school, but I feel like this would take longer, plus, I heard that it needs to be converted to EASA now or something, I don’t know all the details, but I heard it adds a lot of work later, and the goal would be to work in Ireland if I do this.

I looked up Jerez in Spain where Aerlingus train, and probably a good reputation for eventual hire with Aerlingus but I don’t think my wife fancies being on her own in Ireland and me moving off for over a year away from family etc
So if there’s places in Ireland near Dublin or the northeast to do it that may be the best option. And if I did it I’d probably just want to get it done ASAP ie integrated, but wonder if they would credit me somewhat for the PPL from the USA

I’m open to advice.

Re: How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:29 pm
by mark
If your PPL issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1, then there should be no need to convert it. Double check with the school but I think any ICAO PPL is enough to start the CPL course. Failing that, some credit should be available towards an integrated course based on your prior experience. You'll need to make contact with the Head Of Training at one of the schools to establish how much credit can be obtained.

If you're plan is to stay in Ireland you only have two options for commercial training - National Flight Centre in Weston and Atlantic Flight Training Academy in Cork. Both offer integrated courses.

Let us know what you decide in the end and how much credit you get.

Regards,
Mark

Re: How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:06 am
by Fenian
mark wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:29 pm
If your PPL issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1, then there should be no need to convert it. Double check with the school but I think any ICAO PPL is enough to start the CPL course. Failing that, some credit should be available towards an integrated course based on your prior experience. You'll need to make contact with the Head Of Training at one of the schools to establish how much credit can be obtained.

If you're plan is to stay in Ireland you only have two options for commercial training - National Flight Centre in Weston and Atlantic Flight Training Academy in Cork. Both offer integrated courses.

Let us know what you decide in the end and how much credit you get.

Regards,
Mark
Hi again Mark,
So I contacted the school, it sounds like its not the school that is ICAO certified, but the license, which comes from the FAA is technically an ICAO license because the USA is an ICAO member.
So the PPL should be fine.....I think

So the options maybe are to remain in the US for now at least, where I work/live, and continue on with the Instrument Rating, and even Commercial,...and then apply for positions say with Aerlingus........I dont know at what point I have to get something done in Ireland only, like the ATPL, I know I can do the ATPL in the USA, but at that point the 1500 hour rule makes it a non-runner for someone like me who isnt working for regional airlines running dual pistons and building hours. Whereas in Europe/Ireland maybe then go to Ireland, do the ATPL frozen and then apply to the likes of Aerlingus? I dont know at what point an airline like that can offer to hire you without shipping you off to Spain for 18 months or whatever....

Is that something possible? Do the PPL/IR/CR in the USA, and then do the ATPL frozen in Ireland? .....
Its very complicated to understand for me.....

Re: How to & Where to for EASA CPL/IR/ATPL For Eventually Coming Back To Ireland

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 am
by mark
Fenian wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:06 am
So I contacted the school, it sounds like its not the school that is ICAO certified, but the license, which comes from the FAA is technically an ICAO license because the USA is an ICAO member.
So the PPL should be fine.....I think
Yes that's right, USA is an ICAO member but not all FAA PPL's issued in the last few years have been ICAO compliant. It should state somewhere on the licence "Issued in Accordance with ICAO Annex I".
Fenian wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:06 am
So the options maybe are to remain in the US for now at least, where I work/live, and continue on with the Instrument Rating, and even Commercial,...and then apply for positions say with Aerlingus........I dont know at what point I have to get something done in Ireland only, like the ATPL, I know I can do the ATPL in the USA, but at that point the 1500 hour rule makes it a non-runner for someone like me who isnt working for regional airlines running dual pistons and building hours. Whereas in Europe/Ireland maybe then go to Ireland, do the ATPL frozen and then apply to the likes of Aerlingus? I dont know at what point an airline like that can offer to hire you without shipping you off to Spain for 18 months or whatever....
At the moment Aer Lingus are only recruiting Direct Entry experienced pilots (see https://flyinginireland.com/2018/12/aer ... ent-drive/ ). Their cadetship programme is usually advertised annually but this will cover your entire training and will probably involve 18 months in Spain.

You'll have to decide on whether you want to work in the USA or Europe. If it's the US, it's best to talk to your local flight school as they will be much more informed on the process.

If you want to work in Europe, and you want to self sponsor the training (most common) then you'll need the following;
  • PPL
  • 100 hours PIC
  • Night Qualification
  • 14 ATPL written exams
  • Multi Engine Piston
  • Multi Engine Instrument Rating
  • MCC Course
  • UPRT Course Completion Certificate (from January 2020)
You could find an EASA certified school in the USA to do most of the courses except the instrument rating needs to be completed in Europe. EASA and the FAA have diverged ever since the Colgan Air crash and as you say, 1500 hours are now required to fly commercial air transport in the USA. In Europe this is not the case and 200 is usually enough but this will be dependent on the airline.

Hope that is a bit clearer!

Regards,
Mark