southaer or atlantic?

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dreamer_757
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southaer or atlantic?

Post by dreamer_757 »

hey,
im looking for advice on whether i shud start my ppl training in southaer or atlantic flight training in cork,ive jus gotten a loan of 6000 euro and am still uncertain of wat to do next,im starting from scratch as in no hours done and am hopin to fly at least twice a week.

thanks
whos bad?

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Post by Flyer1 »

From what i've heard Atlantic seem to be a more professional outfit and their aircraft are in mint condition.

On the Other hand Southaer are cheaper, but that doesn't mean that their standard of their instruction isn't as good. Their aircraft have the " used " look on them but are all in working order.

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Post by alphaLaura »

Their aircraft have the " used " look on them but are all in working order.

lol

I fly with Southaer and have no complaints (other than the different-instructor-every-week situation which is a common thing throughout Ireland as far as I know).
I've actually heard some strange things about Atlantic in the way of FI's not bothering to turn up for lessons -- that's second hand knowledge obviously, because I have had no experience with them. Besides having a Cessna (Cessnas?) Atlantic recently got a new Grob which might sway things for you...

Honestly though, everyone knows Cherokees are better than Cessnas :b Go for southaer *nod nod*

[Uh, Just messing btw]
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
I OWN THE SUN

Flyer1
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Post by Flyer1 »

I've heard that too Laura, so southaer would seem to be more reliable.

Go southaer, you'll be a lot richer aswell

dreamer1
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Post by dreamer1 »

good luck with trying to fly twice a week in cork, this unfortunately will also affect your six grand.

Regards to all

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Post by danelane2000 »

ATLANTIC defenatly, instructors always show up now, that problem was solved, you have professional service, and all people there are sound as a pound (maybe euro now). I train there weekley and i have no complaints as yet apart from 1 or 2 glitches last year but other than that brilliant.
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dreamer_757
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Post by dreamer_757 »

ive decided to go with southaer for the simple fact that i would log a lot more hours for my money,

hope i made the right decision.
whos bad?

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Post by -Al- »

alphaLaura wrote:
(other than the different-instructor-every-week situation which is a common thing throughout Ireland as far as I know).


yep, seems to happen in most places. Its good and bad, bad that usually a new instructor has to get the feel of your flying, good they can sometimes teach differently and you can pick on things faster/better.

atleast thats how I found it.
Image
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Post by danelane2000 »

Lads, what ive heard frrom an ex=student of southaer with atlantic, is that with southaer you can be waiting anything up to 2 months for a slot, with atlantic you wait 2 days , this is true as i fly with Atlantic myself so...

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Post by alphaLaura »

Um, yup, unfortunately that's true Patrick. I originally went out there in September last year to book an introductory flight and could only book one near the end of November. Then, I had to wait until February to actually start regularly flying -- though some of that delay was because of my own college timetable (*stabs timetable*). I don't really care now though because I have a steady weekly slot :]
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Post by Flyer1 »

But isn't that agood sign ? So many people want to fly with them.

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Post by elmariachi »

First of all i'd like to say I am not taking sides here at all as I respect both operations equally and have much respect for them offering the gift that is flight training to many keen pilots in the SW.

But let me dispense some words of advice to you about training in Cork.
First I'll highlight my views on the two flight centres forementioned and explain to you what exactly are the services they are offering and the kinks involved in them.
Both Southaer and Atlantic are offering two different levels of service in my opinion.Southaer offer the low cost option in Cork offering ?110/hr on two PA28-140's and a PA28-161 cruiser with a decent set of instructors which are dead-on. This said the aircraft are not always in service and the company has had bad luck (or planning!) with the aircraft going tech sporadically throughout the past two/three years.They also have a very very very very heavily booked slot schedule and the problem above compounds this which is extremely frustrating if you are a student trying to keep the ball rolling to stay current.I you fall out of currency( i.e become rusty from lack of practice) you can add a good deal of cash onto your first PPL cost estimate.
Another hitch is the fact that Southaer sell a truck load of intro vouchers at christmas time which are then booked in for the good fews months following.To the innocent almost naive customer this may seem o.k until you learn that when ,lets say two or one planes go to the mechanics outfit in waterford in the mid summer,intro flights are then given priority over any students trying to stay current (in an already extremely booked slot schedule).Very ,very ,very ,very disgruntling indeed!This fact is the biggest crack is their training setup in my opinion.
Furthermore ,the fact that southaer is well booked out in advance does not in any way suggest that they are a better "performing " training centre than the said Atlantic flight training centre.It is just a simple matter of who has been around the longest and who is offering intro's which is something that atlantic has not dived into immediately.
Which brings me to Atlantic.Here is my cut on some of the facts/myths about atlantic:
1.They have good availability.
yes tis is true but beware that they do operate two aircraft so when a C.of A. comes around for one of the planes expect a BIG wait for some flying.some of you may disagree because you might say "but they have a grob to compensate for that now"or "It has only taken a month in the past for the CofA" but the fact of the matter is this guy is above is trying to get a PPL on six grand and a delay of a month or the burden of having to learn the handling of the grob would be about as inviting as breakingyour left arm during training.
2.They are more expensive.
Very true and there are extra costs too ,not charged by the previously mentioned Southaer ,such as the ?2 per landing which could bite you in the ass if your having trouble at the start of your training with circuits.The fact that they charge ?150/hr for a C172 SP and ?130/hr for a two seater grob 115B could see you adding an extra ~20% of cost to a southaer estimate for the same amount of hours.
3.They have operational problems concerning instructors.
Maybe at the start where for any company teething problems must be ironed out and duty schemes formed.Other than that I have not heard of any MAJOR problems (heard through the grapevine) concerning instructors punctuality/ability/dedication to the service which they are providing.That said maybe I haven't heard any really nasty rumours that may exist but I hope and reckon this isn't the case.
So there it is -my opinion of these two fine establishments that are the backbone of training in Cark.

You say above that you have ?6000 to spend on a PPL.
Lets look closer at the cost breakdown on this to see how many hours you can do taking with the lowest price (?110/hr with southaer)into account exam fees(assuming pass on first go) ?600,essential flight gear such as map,plotters and ruler,non permantent pens ?140,and finally books ?150.
1st of all legal flight time - 4950 buck leaving 1050 to spend on the forementioned accessories which then leaves you with ?110 euro's to spend on whatever you want (i recommend an extra hour flying to take your mum and dad on a sight-seeing tour around the beauty that is spike island and whitegate oil refinery).
For a PPL in Atlantic adjust the figure above accordingly to get an even worse one that exceeds your ?6000 budget-not really good.
Now to get a PPL in the legal minimum is not an easy thing in any meaning of the word if its to do with Ireland.You will want to be flying pretty much everyday throughout the entire week for a good few weeks -I'm talking 2hrs a day with a good bit of study in between and a well planned schedule.This ,and I really hate to break this to you is nigh on impossible in Cork.Bad weather (which is pretty damn common at cork) will certainly play havoc with your schedule unless of course you are extremely lucky with when you start training.I recommend the summer months starting mid June.Not only is the weather a problem in cork but your also have the unforeseen risks of aircraft going tech,instructors sickness,your sickness etc...
So what options do you have in my opinion:
1.Go to southaer plead for slots cancellations to make up your schedule and bite the big brass bullet and pray to god that the sun shines on Cork with no haze for about two months.
2.Get some more cash and go to atlantic.
3.learn next summer in cork using the winter to plan out more carefully what you can do with your six grand ,when to do it and to do some reading up on exercises/theory.
4.Go to the states and get your licence there in one of their PPL drivethru's.(One word of caution.I have heard that after learning in the states ,PPL flight in ireland can e daunting even hard at first to some due to differences in topograhy etc... Also now in the states you need an ' alien permission form in order to learn how to fly there.(' yes thats right 'alien' is the term they use!!)- .I don't knoww whether this is hard to get but being how security concious they are i'd say it is)

Hope the advice was not too disparaging and that you get some good from it. You may find I might be in your opinion wrong with some of the advice and that it works out opposite to what I predict ,just take into account that it taken from personal experience.But trust me on the sunscreen.

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Post by 1800-how'smyflying »

atlanticare the most unprofessional school going mate! i did a ppland atpls with them in Florida, good instructor but the schoollet me and many others down big time, by shutting shop, and nobody in the uk cared to help! atpl results were sent late, students were left to hr build with noinstructors, and the cpl contract they were due to provide traing for is broken. i advise people not to go near them, for reasons i cant mention here too...

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Post by danelane2000 »

1800-how'smyflying wrote:atlanticare the most unprofessional school going mate! i did a ppland atpls with them in Florida, good instructor but the schoollet me and many others down big time, by shutting shop, and nobody in the uk cared to help! atpl results were sent late, students were left to hr build with noinstructors, and the cpl contract they were due to provide traing for is broken. i advise people not to go near them, for reasons i cant mention here too...


Hi 1800-how'smyflying

But in your post you quote
1800-how'smyflying wrote: i did a ppland atpls with them in Florida


But i have to correct you , because Atlantic are neither in florida nor UK as you have stated. Atlantic are based in Cork Airport, Cork, Ireland.
They DONT specialise in ATPL, only PPL - CPL and IR and INS.

I find atlantic reliable, the only thing i dont like in Atlantic in CORK, is that when the aircraft go for the C of A, and your either left in an aircraft you dont want to fly or your flight is cancelled.

But all in all, atlantic are a professional, reliable and VERY freindly group to learnand fly with......

Regards,
Patrick O'Leary
Cork Live Director,
www.cork-live.com

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Post by Dutch Roll »

[\quote]
But i have to correct you , because Atlantic are neither in florida nor UK as you have stated. Atlantic are based in Cork Airport, Cork, Ireland.
They DONT specialise in ATPL, only PPL - CPL and IR and INS.

I find atlantic reliable, the only thing i dont like in Atlantic in CORK, is that when the aircraft go for the C of A, and your either left in an aircraft you dont want to fly or your flight is cancelled.

But all in all, atlantic are a professional, reliable and VERY freindly group to learnand fly with......

Regards,
Patrick O'Leary[/quote]

What is INS with regard to flying training??
Not the very old inertial Nav system i know!
115 VAC @400Hz

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