[pestfromthewest]

Hi,

Couldn't find this specific topic already covered. I have most of PPL(A) completed here in Ireland - Medical, Theory and over 40 hours. Going to States ina couple of months and was wondering if it is feasible to complete the JAA PPL(A) over there. Has anyone done something like this? Do I have to get permission/approval from IAA? ....

[tu154]

Complicated.
As I understand it you can't even change training providers within Ireland unless the IAA say so.
You might be able (if the IAA and CAA say yes) to go to a CAA approved facility in the US, but I would talk to both the IAA and CAA, find a training provider who's willing to take you on, and get it all in writing first.
At 40 hours it's probably easier to complete it in Ireland.
Open to correction, usual disclaimers etc.

[pestfromthewest]

Thanks for the info,

The IAA, certainly seem to want to be in total control of everything and hell bent on making things difficult for people. Sure there must be a reason for this, but it evades me. Wonder is it all tied up with ensuring the status quo for established FTOs and ensureing that they can't loose students.

My problem, and it looks like I will have to live with it, over the last three months I have had three lessons despite having a regular weekly slot. At this rate I will never get the PPL(A)

FRUSTRATED

[incisor]

In theory you should be able to switch school, so long as you can produce your training records, which your school under their training authorisation should be maintaining. You should be able to switch your medical to the CAA easily enough - the medical section of the IAA can advise - so you just need to confirm with the CAA that they will accept your exams. Best identify a school in the US where you want to go - they will have the CAA contacts to help you out. In fact most likely they will have dealt with this type of thing before, if you pick one of the better known ones such as Naples in Florida. Even if you have to sit the exams again, it may be worth it, given the likely delays due weather which you may encounter (hindering not only progress, but also currency). At 40 hours, depending on how far you have got, it may well be worth switching, especially if you are at one of those "don't let them get away with less than 80 hours" rip-off outfits.

[Bob]

Sure there must be a reason for this, but it evades me.

It's called money.

[incisor]

As another thought, and depending on why you want your PPL, you could consider forgetting about a JAA licence altogether, and just go for an FAA one. Doing this would mean that you would have difficulty going further to a JAA commercial licence (some form of conversion required?), but if you are just looking at the pleasure of flying, then an FAA PPL would allow you to fly in Ireland and Europe - you need to check this out with someone who does just that. There would be an additional benefit in that I understand that the FAA licence revalidation is not as onerous or costly as the JAA biennial process appears to be. Given that you already have the basics, starting FAA training may not be as backward a step as you might think.

[conor_mc]

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10893

This discussion might be useful to read. It refers to changes in LASORS 2005, which would seem to suggest that there has been a shift in policy with regard to flight training completed at a non-JAA school. As I understand it, it used to be that you had to do a minimum of 35 hours at a JAA-approved school, and therefore could only count 10 non-JAA hours towards a 45-hour PPL. The new policy seems to be that if you can furnish your non-JAA training records to a JAA CFI, the CFI then designs a course of training to make sure that all JAA requirements have been covered (which may not be necessary if the non-JAA school trained to JAA standard), and once thats done and you've passed your exams and your flight test, you get your shiny new JAA PPL.

The caveat is this though - LASORS is a CAA publication, and it's contents may not necessarily be valid for the IAA. As best I can make out though, the section in question is referring specifically to JAR-FCL 1 and not to the ANO or any other UK-specific legislation, and therefore should apply here also. If so, it certainly would make it easier for stude's to do some beginner training and get the exams out of the way here, head to florida for a few weeks intensive flying and then return to Ireland to tidy up the loose ends. It's certainly something I'll be looking at!

[Pilot Training College]

Wonder is it all tied up with ensuring the status quo for established FTOs and ensureing that they can't loose students.

You may exempt PTC in Waterford from that speculation. We are actively lobbying to open up the training market place so that we can compete on quality with FTOs across the whole JAA territory. We don't need, nor do we want, anyone to maintain the "status quo" for us. The only strategy we have to retain students is to offer an excellent training product.

On the original subject of this discussion, we have done a number of PPL "completions" recently and can give advice on finishing your licence in Ireland if the US option proves unworkable for you.

D Owens
Business Development Manager

[EIKL-WooDe]

if i were you id complete it here in ireland because we expierence all types of weather here in our green land, this would be a great advantage to your skill, and if taking it futher then id also go with ireland.

[YoYo]

Hi

I take the opposite view to EIKL - Go do the licence in the US, JAA or FAA and then come home and use it. Its a great feeling haveing the licence in your pocket. It means you can go flying on the good days - and on the iffy ones you can always throw someone with experience in the other seat to keep you out of trouble.

The old addage - haveing a PPL is a licence to learn - is very true. Being 'attached' to an instructor under instruction in an aircraft you automatically unconciously rely on his decisions. When you have a licence flying alone you have to do the thinking yourself. In the case of 'weather' the instructor will usually make the decision if its a 'no-go'. Have you turned up at the field, looked at the wind sock, and said to the instructor 'A bit windy - I don't think I'll fly today' with the instructor saying 'comeon it'll be OK'. The instructor made the decision.

When you get your licence, irrespective where you learnt, you will have to set yourself your own limits and stay within them until your experience level increases and you can the review your limits. Notice I did not say your confidence level.

Get your licence wherever you can in the shortest period of training time and then go fly

[EIKL-WooDe]

yoyo does have a point to some degree but i was told by many pilots and by training schools about the various weather conditions here that it would make a good pilot out of you when you finish your course, (knowing that you can Fly with out an intructor and making your it on your own) isnt that whats its all about and why you pay so much.

[YoYo]

i was told by many pilots and by training schools about the various weather conditions here that it would make a good pilot out of you when you finish your course.

The question to ask yourself is - what is a good pilot?

To me a good pilot is one who makes good decisions - not someone who has a gazillion hours in their log book and has flown in every type of weather.

Going back to the question of getting a licence abroad. Consider the scenario. You are a low time pilot. You check the weather before leaving the house and it was deemed within your set limits. You arrive at the airfield and find the wind has increased to 3 knots cross wind above your personal set limits. DO you:
1. Walk away - good decision maker
2. Go fly bacause its only 3 knots
3. Find an instructor/experienced pilot and take them along

For some unknown reason pilots tend to think that its a crime to admit the conditions are above your limits and to ask for help. Having a licence does not stop one from using an instructor to broaden your 'limits'. Its better to expand your limits with the help of an instructor than to do it by frightening oneself.

So: Get your licence whatever way possible, Set you personal limits, Make good decisions and go fly safely.

[EIKL-WooDe]

yeh i think i have to fold here on the last reply from YOYO, Good brownie points there for that one, but more exp with various weather is still a good thing to have under your belt when you finish your course.