PANIC STATIONS (NEED ADVICE)

[airbus]

Ok heres my situation i am only a few months into the AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS/AVIONICS course in CARLOW I.T and i'm finding it very difficult and realising this side of the aviation industry is not for me.

I am more interested in the pilot end of things and i am only doing the course in carlow to bide my time and then begin my pilot training but in my opinion the carlow course is in many cases much different than anything that a pilot must know about the aircraft (don't get me wrong but obviously the aircraft engineer must be more knolwedgable about the airfcraft system in general than the pilot,the pilot really must know how to use the system rather than how it works)

But my question is if i don't find the aircraft systems course interesting and i find it difficult am i kidding myself in thinking maybe i would find the pilot end of it much more enjoyable[/b] i know the content maybe even more but as my main interest is the pilot end of things i would find it more interesting.OR if i can't hack the engineers end of it is there any hope of me even getting near the pilot end of it.

PLEASE ADVICE [/b]

[ifty]

I reckon it depends what you want to do with your life in the long term, if you want to be a ginger beer then you a, stick with it or b, change career then again if you want to be a pilot then flying courses would be a better way to spend the pennies IMHO

[Papa8]

Someone once told me that 9 times out 10 your first instinct/guess is right and by looking at your post in this way (that is you took time to seek advice, type it online etc) I would propose that your best bet is to look at switching to something your heart tells you to do. In terms of your brain well an aeronautical/mechanical engineer and an airline pilot both have difficult training to complete, both have attractive pay (kind of) and both have difficulty in getting that first job so I would follow the heart based on those two career options. There is definitely a lot you should research about the pros, cons and pitfalls of becoming an airline pilot but if you still find yourself saying 'yes' then it is a case of knocking down those obstacles to being an airline pilot as opposed to being a 'ginger beer'

I am not sure if you are aware that Peter Tawse who is running the PPL ground school at the moment in Carlow is also a flight instructor in Kilkenny. Maybe he could offer a little advice?

P.S. In theory in the future you would probably get a kick out of building and flying your own kitplane too, given a passing interest in engineering and in flying.

[Papa8]

Also to quickly answer your questions in red text. I have no interest in engineering but really enjoy the theory of aircraft systems etc. Learning to be an airline pilot does have a heavy emphasis on the aircraft technical (look up ATPL exams) side of things but you will also study meteorology/climate - i.e. science, aerodynamics - i.e.basic physics, aviation law -i.e. law, human performance - i.e. basic biology and other skill areas like multi-tasking, following instructions, career advice etc as well as of course a very practical flying element. Knowledge of computers and how they function are naturally useful also these days.

You can start as late as your early 30s although you will face stiff competition as younger fATPL pilots will be attractive from the point of view of how much an airline could employ them for.

[dara]

u can start as late as your early 30s although you will face stiff competition as younger fATPL pilots will be attractive from the point of view of how much an airline could employ them for.

No truth at all to that, im 26 and one of the youngest on my TR course, by a long way

[michael747]

If i were you i'd stick it out as you'd find the ATPL's a lot easier along the way, And If you have your PPL, There's nothing stoping you doing the JAR ATPL's the same time as your Part 45 JAR exams. And you'll have the degree to fall back on.....

Stick with it, I found the Avionics very tuf for the first year and a bit, then it's all simple in your 3rd semester

[driver1a]

If it doesn't suit you, then quit the course and do something else. The problem now for you is; do what?

You say you want to be a pilot, that's great. But do you have the money to start training or can you get it? If so fine, off you go. If not you have to find the money. Becoming a pilot costs between €60 and €100k. Start training now and this time next year you will be ready to sign on the dole with all the other unemployed pilots with only 250 hours and a huge debt.

That's what you face. If you haven't got the money or the means to obtain it then you won't be flying anytime soon. If you do, you probably won't get any work flying after you qualify in the current climate, perhaps never.

On the technical aspect of it, yes indeed there is less of it for the pilot but there is still lot to learn and when you finally do get the airline job and start the type rating. They hand you a pile of manuals, detailing systems, procedures etc. Then they test you on that. It doesn't stop there, every new aeroplane means more manuals, more tests.

If you cannot handle the technical aspect of being an Engineer, then you probably won't handle the technical aspects of being a pilot. If on the other hand you simply don't like the technical side but can manage it ok. That's different. Welcome to the club. I find it all very tedious but I manage.

You have to decide yourself. Am I cut out for a career in a highly technical and complex business or do I want a simpler job around aeroplanes and fly in my spare time?

You could simply be on the wrong course. There are other aircraft engineering courses out there. You have to decide yourself.

[mr crow]

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[Papa8]

Re: Mr Crow and Dara and age spans mentioned. I am really glad to hear that. I doubt I will go through airline training but at least age (31) is still on my side if I wanted to!

[airbus]

It's just i think the course in carlow deals with a lot of stuff like (resistors,capacitors,circuits).From my knolwedge i think ATPLS and pilot training deals more with "how a plane flys and heres a question Do pilots have to know in detail actually all about circuits and resistors and actually how parts of an aircraft work like an engineer or are pilots trained in the way that they know the very basics of how the technical side of the aircrafts system works(compared to engineers) BUT pilots would know how and when to actually use the instruments.

So basically what i'm asking is the stuff engineers are tought much different to what pilots are tought or is it basically the same and if i can't grasp it so soon into the carlow course is there any point in me continuing down the PILOT route(baring in mind i have a higher interst in flying rather than fixing)

[mr crow]

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[driver1a]

Now mr crow, lets not get into a flap and start name calling. I'm sorry if I cut into your fantasies with a little reality. Maybe you need to grow up a little. As far as I'm concerned. I'm telling it like it is. Airbus at least deserves that.

I don't know what circles you move in but I can introduce to lots of good pilots right now working as truck drivers and carpenters, actually not carpenters. Carpenters are all out of work. Airbus is thinking of quitting a college course to pursue his dream of flying. I've no problem with that. But he needs to realise that this is possibly the worst time to do it. There is a common joke about pilots 'What do you say when you meet a CPL with a Multi IR, frozen ATPL and MCC? Can I have a Big Mac meal please! At least the carpenters and drivers have a skill to fall back on while the downturn is with us.

To answer airbus' question, no the pilot stuff is not as detailed as an Engineers. Engineers need to learn how to fix things pilots don't. But it is detailed and it covers subjects not covered by the Engineers course. It is intense and requires dedication and effort. And it never stops, pilots never stand still when it comes to learning technical information. Same for Engineers. So you have to be able for it. Having said that it's quite doable.

It's also worth pointing out that unless the exams are done at an integrated flight school. The learning must be mostly done by the student himself. Not spoonfed like a college course.

Airbus is going the right way about it. Asking questions. There are no stupid questions.

[mr crow]

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[driver1a]

As far as I know. I'm not having a row with you or anyone else. In fact I addressed my reply to Airbus but you got offended for some reason on his behalf. I'm not sure what you mean by stirring it up. The reality is that there are no jobs out there right now and it's likely to remain tight for the forseeable future. Ryanair that barometer of the industry has stopped recruiting for now. Aer Arann has put off it's latest TR candidates to next August at the earliest and laying off pilots. They may not even get a look in at all as it's survival is far from guaranteed. Aer Lingus is in flux and this government of idiots ruling us right now decided to twist the knife by making flying more expensive with their taxes. It's the same in Britain and a few other airlines will crash before this is over.

You don't need to read PPrune for stuff like that. I prefer Flight International myself.

It will pick up again of course but when is another question. I'm sorry if any of this is shocking or dismaying. But that's the real world we live in.

[zulu10]

Airbus. As someone else has pointed out, do what your heart says. I always wanted to be a pilot, I didnt just decide one day that it might be suit me. Unless you are 100% sure you want to do this then dont do it. Getting to Type rating level and beyond may not involve the same level of technical knowledge as an engineer but requires many other attributes that will test your will and need to the limit and only the passionate survive this test IMO.