ATPL school rep

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amg182
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ATPL school rep

Post by amg182 » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:38 pm

Hi all. Happy new year to yous.
I thinks its fair to say that there are a lot of great ATPL shools out there, but at the end of the day, Airlines have there preffered training schools which they recruit pilots from.
I believe Oxford are highly reputable, but is there any cheaper schools out there which airlines have equal respect for Within Europe or even U.s.a?
Any comments or anything to add?
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Post by JFH » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:22 pm

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Post by buzz » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:19 pm

If you want to get into Aer Lingus specifically, then Oxford or Flight Training Europe in Jerez are a choice. Also Western Michigan University. They have recruited from all three and sponsored cadets. But they are so bloody anal when it comes to their recruitment policies AT THE MOMENT. That may change.

However, no one else really cares where you train, how you trained, whether you wore epaulettes and a pilot shirt in class or what your actual scores in the writtens were. What most airlines want is a CPL Multi/IR frozen ATPL and an MCC. After that they assess you in a simulator, grill you at the interview to see if you know anything about flying and then offer you a seat on a type rating course (at your expense in the case or Ryanair and Aer Arann).

If you can afford Oxford etc then do so by all means.

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Post by Cosmic » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:05 pm

Good grief. There is some awful nonsense being posted in here today.

Best modular school around would be naples air center as BA recruit people from there and BA are fussy when it comes to taken on first officers so it says alot.


They don't, and it doesn't.

BA have no official "Cadet Program" anymore, nor do they specifically have an official accredited program or partnership with any school. They seem to have close liaisons with Oxford (OATS) and have in the recent past taken a few APP graduates off their hands but we are talking a tiny fraction of the (Quite considerable) OATS student yearly output.

BA do take DEP (Direct entry Pilots) which is open to anyone with the required experience, the last I looked at it they were "only" asking for 100 sectors on something moderately heavy with jet engines. These DEPs came from a wide and varied background. Some may well have been ex NAC students, indeed I know one myself. The link between NAC and him getting the job is non existent. He got his time elsewhere and earned his spot with BA, by his own efforts and bloody hard work getting ready for the interview.

To claim that NAC is the best modular course in the world, due to them sticking a BA logo on their website or whatever, after they heard he had got a job, in the hope of claiming some of the glory, well......... :roll:

Also Western Michigan University.


Western Michigan have been out of the JAA training business for quite a few years (About 2001 as I hazily recall). Once BA and Emirates pulled their programs that was it for them. The writing was on the wall, the industry had changed and the business that WMU had built a course around (sponsored Airline Integrated courses) was gone and never to return. Another of the many victims of Sept. 11th.

The fact is that minuscule numbers of Pilots get into Aer Lingus, BA et al with 250hrs. That doesn't stop the schools using their Logo on their adverts and getting all the mileage they can out of the link up, no matter how tenuous. Your license doesn't say integrated or Modular on the front cover and once you have some commercial experience in your logbook, no one will give a hoot. You will only be left nursing bigger loan repayments for the next decade while you repay your course.

This in my opinion, however, is right on the money for Ryanair and Aer Arann:

However, no one else really cares where you train, how you trained, whether you wore epaulettes and a pilot shirt in class or what your actual scores in the writtens were. What most airlines want is a CPL Multi/IR frozen ATPL and an MCC. After that they assess you in a simulator, grill you at the interview to see if you know anything about flying and then offer you a seat on a type rating course (at your expense in the case or Ryanair and Aer Arann).
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

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Post by amg182 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:42 pm

Thanks for all comments lads, good to see interest in the topic.
Cosmic you seem to have plenty of info on pilot recuirtment.
Its prob a broad question but, when all training is complete watever the school, and when you go to an airline looking for and interview, Who do most typical arlines(aer-lingus, ba, ryan) want to employ? Any didtinct characteristics? age, past experiences, other qualifications etc...
And is it fair to say that they look for someone who already has a Type rating?
Prob a silly question...?
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Post by buzz » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:59 pm

What do airlines look for? That's huge question actually. On the type rating issue it has worked before but is relatively pointless for the likes of Ryanair. Having a type rating and experience is another matter. The difficulty with getting a type rating is which one? ATR? 737-800, Airbus 319/20/21? I do know that Aer Arann have taken pilots on the basis of a type rating. But it's a gamble.

Check out PPRUNE for what the airlines actually look for based on the experiences of other pilots. Then take a pinch of salt. Because you can never quite pin it down. I know great pilots who never made it to an airline and scary guys who are now Captains. I refer to my original point which Cosmic quoted (thx :wink: ) That is what they want plus they assess you on the totally subjective basis of you fitting in with their idea of a typical (fill in the blank) pilot.

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Post by shamrock/heavy » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:33 pm

Can i just ask a quick question now that we are talking about what airlines look in pilots. Is there a preference in Aer Lingus for Irish pilots? Granted if you are from another country with a 320 type rating and a bag load of hours their not going to be too fussy where you come from, but if you were a frozen ATPL and aer lingus were considering giving you a job and paying for all the associated training etc would they have a preference for Irish guys/gals. I was recently at an aer lingus recruitment seminar and this very question came up and the reply was no obviously because saying yes is discrimination, but apparently they have trouble keeping non Irish after the bond period is over, and he hinted that it is easier to keep the Irish pilots. If anyone in the know can shine some light on this issue it would be much appreciated.

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Post by buzz » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:48 am

I think you answered your own question really. Any Irish airline is going to prefer Irish simply because of the question of staying with the airline. However the reallity is that they will take all suitable because there are never enough appropriately qualified Irish pilots. Mainly it's British though, who often stay.

Ryanair of course is different. They really don't care and the chances are you won't even be interviewed by an Irish person. They are multinational in every sense.

The answer is: Don't think being Irish will give you an edge.

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Post by amg182 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:48 pm

I believe its very important for the likes of Aer lingus to remain faithful to the flag. Just the small things like its irish character, employees,language, traits etc...
If ryanair bid to takeover our Aer lingus is successful, i think its fair to say that they wouldnt give a damn about its heritage.
As for irish pilots, wouldnt it be nice to be greeted from the cockpit in both Irish as well as English?

Bit of the point i know....
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Post by mike romeo » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:45 am

amg182 wrote:As for irish pilots, wouldnt it be nice to be greeted from the cockpit in both Irish as well as English?


This has been discussed extensively on pprune

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Post by FLYbyWIT » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:37 am

"This has been discussed extensively on pprune"

So whats your point, we are not on pprune here.
so discuss away
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Post by mike romeo » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:46 am

FLYbyWIT wrote:"This has been discussed extensively on pprune"

So whats your point, we are not on pprune here.
So discuss away!



ah now I didn't mean it like that FLYbyWIT!

I was reading it yesterday.

I meant to copy the link, bit I cant find the bloody topic now

c'est terrible!

I'll let u know when come across it, in the meantime discuss away!!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread ... lge&page=6
here we are

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Post by buzz » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:29 pm

I hate quoting myself but I will:
there are never enough appropriately qualified Irish pilots


Aer Lingus always hired British pilots, always will simply because of the above. The Irish language thing is a bit of a red herring. Anyone can learn a bit of pidgin Irish to greet the pax, even me.

Heritage, smeritage. An airline's job is to stay in business. Preserving the Oirish character is not their job.

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Post by shamrock/heavy » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:00 pm

I don't disagree with you at all Buzz, if a company has targets to meet flight crew wise then for sure they should go about hiring whoever fits the job regardless of where they come from. All i was wondering was, is there a sort of hidden preference for Irish pilots in the airline. For example the flight school i go to now does recommend to Aer Lingus but only, quote from head of training "good Irish students", this is something that i can't imagine he came up with on his own and thus me wondering is there some sort of preference. Thanks for all the comments though, keep them coming.

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Post by amg182 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:47 pm

What flight school is this shamrock?
"We have clearance clarence"
"Roger Roger"
Whats our vector vickor?

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