NFC

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airbus
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Post by airbus »

I just want to ask anybody who had any experience with NFC how was it is it a good place to train,whats the good bits and whats the bad bits if there is any. For a person like myself who possibly will go on to be an airline pilot is this a good place to train does it have everything that you would want and can anybody compare it to other training facilities in the country (in a quality way rather than a money way). Hope you can answer :D :?:

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Post by mark »

Hi airbus,

I've done a PPL, tailwheel rating and ATPL's with them and I recommend them. Very good quality of instruction, some very experienced instructors. Very busy at the weekends so it's important to try and book a regular slot with a regular instructor in order to make progress. Although not in perfect condition, the fleet of Cessna 150/152/172's are fantastic training aircraft. They also rent out aircraft when you've qualified which I don't think any other school will do.

Any other questions?
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Mark Dwyer
www.flyinginireland.com

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Post by GJOYT »

They wouldn't rent them to me cause I didnt train with them. The flying school in Enniskillen still let me avial of their aircraft.

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Post by Zyox »

G-JOYT wrote:They wouldn't rent them to me cause I didnt train with them. The flying school in Enniskillen still let me avial of their aircraft.


I rang NFC last week, desperate to find somewhere to rent a 152/172, and they said I could rent from them provided I did 5 hours of check out flights them to learn the area and the radio and as an insurance requirement.

What's Enniskillen like? What aircraft can you rent up there?
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Post by airbus »

Can they train you up to as far that you can be a airline pilot at the end of it now i dont mean a type rating or mcc or anything i mean do they do MEP's because i dont recall seeing that they do anywere :? :?

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Post by GJOYT »

Zyox, 5 hour check out flight is rediculous in my opinion if you have a PPL with a few decent hours. If you can fly a PA-28 you can fly a C-172 with an hour check out or 2hrs. Before I even had my PPL when I was just aloud to solo(there is no SPL up the North you just get signed off to go solo) my instructor checked me out on a PA-28-181 and sent me solo after a 45min check out flight and bear in mind I was flying a little flimsy DA-20-A1 Katana before that. I have had my PPL since February and I asked to get checked out on the school's C-150 two weeks ago and my old instructor gave me a 45min check out and sent me solo. In the 45mins we would do stalls, steep turns, maybe a quick spin in the 150 and back for 3 circuits.
Enniskillen is brilliant. Very friendly and welcoming. You can fly after hours too in the evening when the airport is closed when you have your PPL. You can rent a PA-28-181 http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules ... mgtype=jpg (see pic) and a Diamond DA-20-A1 Katana http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules ... mgtype=jpg and the C-150 when shes over from Scotland http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules ... mgtype=jpg

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Post by Zyox »

Hmm that looks good.

And yes I agree with the 5 hours being ridiculous!
I have 230hrs and a Canadian CPL with Multi-IR and they were still having none of it and not even letting me fly at night >_<
I still think I'll end up biting the bullet and going there though. She said that it's at the discretion of the instructor, so hopefully I can "prove myself" in one or two flights, but it smells like a money making scheme to me.
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Post by EI-MAY »

Has anybody recently done the MEP/IR with NFC and what were they like? Did you complete the training in a reasonable amount of time?

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Post by GJOYT »

Well it seems to me anyways that you know what you are doing. Yes I agree, it should be at the discretion of the instructor. Like it would be more than 5 weeks to do 5 hours flying!! Do you live in Dublin?

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Post by Cosmic »

I tried to do an IR with them a year or two ago.

It was a complete disaster. I was available 7 days a week but they could only fit in lessons here and there, I would have a gap of three or four days between lessons and then when I finally got a slot I would turn up to find my name scratched out on the haphazard mess of a schedule sheet.

I had just come from two of the biggest JAA schools in the US where lessons and instructors were lined up for the duration of a course right through to completion, and everything was scheduled using a computer programme. It was hard to believe what was happening at NFC. The attitude was almost like they were doing you a favour or you were lucky to be flying.

After a few weeks of frustration I exercised my right as a customer and took my business elsewhere. Found a school who were able to give me a concentrated course with some structure, a start, a middle and an end. It was a real shame as I was really looking forward to coming back to fly in Ireland and the instructors were all really excellent, genuine people. As an organisation they just couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

I would say that they had just lost quite a few instructors to the Airlines at the time so that didn't help. Things may be better now I am not sure. However in my mind I think of them as a more of a flight club as opposed to a flight academy.
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

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Post by EI-MAY »

Cheers Cosmic, exactly what I thought it was like. I started my PPL with them in 98 and they were a mess then too so I decided to go to the states and finish it off and I was treated alot better over there. It used to drive me mad when I would take a day off work and find out my name was rubbed off the scheduling sheet too.

Your dead right the customer is the King and should be treated like so. In any other purchase where I would be spending in the region on 20K I would expect a proper service.

Where did you do the IR in the end?

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Post by junglebob »

Hey Cosmic, where and how much did the IR cost you?

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Post by hibby »

I only have my own experience to go on. I've been a student pilot at NFC for over 4 years trying to get a PPL. The quality of instruction has been good, but the pace of progress really frustrating at times. I've been stalled at the point of being ready to do a Shannon-Galway flight since October 2006 (When I call to enquire, I'm told I'm number 1 on the list, whenever we get the right combination of suitable weather, available aircraft, moon in Aquarius...)

Continuity of instructors has been another problem - I've had more instructors over the years than I can count. Currently I don't have any instructor, because my most recent instructor has left.

It may be that I've not made enough of a fuss, that I didn't plan my lessons right, but I feel like I've tried everything, including several "blitzes" where I booked double slots every Saturday and Sunday for months to try to progress.

Many times over the 4 years, I had the feeling that once the door closed behind me, nobody in the organisation knew or cared who I was, what stage of my training I was at or whether I ever got a PPL.

I am a very patient person, but in the end I've reluctantly faced the fact that if I want to get a PPL I have to go to the US and do my training there.

Perhaps other people's experience has been different - I'm sure some people do successfully complete their PPL training at NFC. Perhaps there's a problem with my own ability. So I can't advise you or make a recommendation one way or the other as to the best choice for you. All I can say is that with the benefit of hindsight, I should have looked for a place that will provide a structured training course, and take some responsibility for and interest in their students' progress.

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Post by Cosmic »

EI-MAY & Hibby Your experiences are reflective of mine. I already had an ICAO IR so I was able to do a very shortened course under the UK CAA, it was very cheap at the time, but you need to have UK ATPL theory exams and a UK CPL. It cost me 5000 Euro for a 15 hour course, but then I paid about 4000 Euro for the FAA IR. It costs easily 15K Pounds GBP in the UK though so all in all I think I got a bit of a bargain.

It is a real shame about NFC, as it could be an absolute goldmine with the right concerted plan of action, structured full time courses, and coordinated planning which includes a dedicated FBO software package, which are commercially available . The simulator they have is an outstanding training aid in so many respects. You can get straight into IR flying without wasting money taxiing an aircraft out and flying 20mins or an hour or whatever to a Navaid or an ILS to practice.

Aircraft should be blocked off for students who are available fulltime. It is madness that the sim was/is run roughly in line with office hours. Commercial sims run 20 hrs a day and the FNPT should be no different. There should be someone who has an overview of all students and can action remedial plans for students getting caught behind.

It is a real shame that the schools in the UK are able to pull off an IR in maximum two months and that they are full of Irish students paying in Sterling when they could be spending their money in an Irish school. The weather should not be a major barrier to an IR as it is to a PPL course. But what do I know, I never owned a flight school!?
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

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Post by buzz »

I fly with the NFC too. The problems I have were almost all directly related to weather and availability of suitably qualified instructors. Not all instructors can train to CPL standards or IR or Multi IR. I also notice that in relation to bookings they have changed the system in some way and it has improved.

The perennial problem of instructors leaving to go to the airlines is a big problem. 3 or 4 are leaving shortly to go to Ryanair. Very few people are training to be instructors in their place. In my opinion if a couple of years time there will be almost no working instructors left in this country.

They can't run the sim 20 hours a day simply because there are only two instructors suitably qualified to train people. They are also tight on Multi instructors. People with that level of experience simply don't work as instructors any more.

One thing I will say and this applies to all flying schools. No one is going to hold your hand. Beyond a certain point in your training it's up to you to make progress. Pilots after all are supposed to be self starters. That means you have make the running and as often as not you tell the instructor what you want to do. Particularly at commercial level.

I cannot understand why it would take months to get a cross country done unless the weather is particularly bad which it was this year. Not so long ago I booked a 150 at fairly short notice and went.

I don't know anything about the five hour checkout rule. But zvox,
not even letting me fly at night >_<
Weston isn't open at night! And unless things have changed you cannot fly night VFR outside the Dublin zone. No disrespect to you but there is a problem with some US or Canadian trained pilots who have struggled to meet JAA or even Irish standards. It's not a question of hours, it's standards that have to be met.

I have to say I hardly recognise the complaints. I do agree it needs better organisation but that is happening I believe.

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