Jet pilot programme opportunity

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leon4444
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Post by leon4444 » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:55 pm

I HONESTLY cant believe this is happening all over again. Can i just say to the select bunch who are continusly trying to put Sigmar and the course down to cop on and get a life! Like certain critisim is understandable and indeed very much important. Not anymore though! As hc has said most of you posting are doing it based on your knowledge of Sigmar based on the assesment day! If u people can sit there and question how much we have researched the course and Sigmar etc ye must realise ye are nothing but hypocrits...i mean how can any of you have made an informed decision on the company or what they were offering! I can understand why Sigmar didn't give out as much info in the initial stages cause they would have been wasting their times! ANy1 who was serious about flying and serious about getting started etc would have sat it out alot longer than some people that are postiog time and time again, have! Im living down in Killarney-everytime i went to Dub i paid 60euro-i could have given up also based on the 'waste' of money...but i stuck with it as well as another friend from Athlone and it paid off. Were all sick of defending ourselves at this stage-i mean we have all been researching every single course available and we are all happy with Sigmar! Its as simple as this...at this stage our deposits have been paid-we have tickets and our visas...guys(and Girls) WERE GOING TO SOUTH AFRICA! We will all post on the forum in the future to let ye know if ye were rite or wrong...but the reason i will be posting is to inform POTENTIAL applicants weather it is a good opportunity etc! Its alot of money but in aviation a risk has to be taken-im 20 now and will be finished up training and hopefully flying as a second officer by the age of 21 which i personally will fell is a great achievement! I might be young but iv been to Oxford,Jerez,CTC and been onto EFT in florida so i have my research done and am happy with Sigmar! Im sure if others apply and stick the process out, you too will be able to make an informed decision based on FACTS sigmar give-just dont expect it day 1 as its not worth their while...for two reasons-1. because they are trying to protect their buisness and the plan regarding training etc(as its the first) and also because lots of ppl went to interviews and assesments knowing they wouldn't accept a place on the course-complete waste of time for Sigmar to be talking to ppl with this kind of mentality! To people who haven't been to Sigmar or are interested in putting in an application-DO! Dont listen to alot of the negative comments and rubbish bias posts! Make up your own minds and dont hesitate to contact any of the 5 of us for info or advice or feedback! Im happy with my Sigmar and iv had the course etc evaluated by two pilots and they are happy-PROFESSISIONALS independant of
Sigmar and City Jet are saying the course is all above board! I know what im saying wont change anybodys minds but for ppl who 'wont touch Sigmar with a barge pole' fine-dont ruin it for some young person like myself hoping to get into the industry(I know if i had read these posts before i applied it would have seriously affected my outlook and would have def been a mistake! To every1 who has wished us luck, Thank you! To everyone else hope your routes work out also but there is no reason for you guys ti be insulting us by asking if we have thought about all of this! Get a life and use the Brain ye have! 95000 is a big some and nobody would 'play' with that amount! Think about it!

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Post by A380 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:05 am

Yes there is a lot of negative posts on the sigmar crowd and their scheme but I do think there are relevant posts. There has also been posts at a more international level on PPRUNE. My experience with sigmar was nothing I would like to experience again especially since I am a hard working and extremely ambition motivated person and will use the experience as a memo of what to use caution with in the future. I really don't understand why sigmar would not tell potential/prospective students(customers) the details of their course intentions and what the student will be investing their hard earned money in! "I can understand why Sigmar didn't give out as much info in the initial stages cause they would have been wasting their times!"Thats a mad statement, do you not remember all the undecided dates and general ambiguity. I mean if thats their sales pitch and business ethos from the onset then I would be concerend. I personally wish the students 100% the best of luck as at the end of the day were all wannabes but I think that both perspectives need to be brought to the fore especially if there will be young applicants who can easily become disheartnd by the crudeness, thats my main concern! I think thats crazy to suggest not to listen to as you call 'negative and rubbish posts' thats just ignorance of the broader picture because they don't suit you.
"Im happy with my Sigmar and iv had the course etc evaluated by two pilots and they are happy-PROFESSISIONALS independant of
Sigmar and City Jet are saying the course is all above board!"
I question that because if they're independant of the above than how do they know, as fact, thats its all above board? Sounds like conjecture.
Like yourself, I too had done an extensive amount of research before I decided on the school for my training and was able to make that decision and I certainly have no regrets on the school I choose over the ones I disregarded. I applied to this scheme, as I said before, because of the cityjet logo but all the confusion and crudeness has put me off this particular scheme but as a result, and since I knew better than to take it seriously, it has only re-enforced my aspiration to become a airliner captain and I will be investing simmilar amounts of money (Jerez/Oxford courses more than likely) paid to the school, who am sure for the amount of money they ask for, will partly be reinvested on improving the schools facilities and not going to profit another independant company which is of no beneift to me or other students. I do hope you will keep us posted from an uninfluenced perspective
A380

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Post by leon4444 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:08 pm

Everyone is entitled to their oppinions-what i meant when i was saying Sigmar had no reason to give out info early on is that certain individuals that are posting on this forum seem to think they are above everyone else and are smarter and cleverer than Sigmar! Obviously there are different routes into the industry-this one in my oppinion seems to be the fastest-for me! At worst il come out wit a fATPL! At least i can begin sending in CV's! Again about the pilots who spoke to Sigmar on my behalf did it from many angles-spoke to sigmar and CityJet and both storys were the same! Also iv had a solisator talk to them etc before the contracts were drawn up! It seems to be above board! Obviously some money is going into somebodys back pocket here but its no different to Jerez or Oxford! Nobody is in this buisness for the fun of it! Everybody makes money and so will Sigmar! I just feel some ppl will put off others interested and my point to them was that they made their 'informed' decisions after only an assesment! Again some said the interview was poorly structured etc-both of them guys were serving pilots and have been in the industry lnger dan all of us! Instead of critising Sigmar and the 5 of us people should be happy Ireland might be opening a new door-expensive i know-but alot is included for the 95.000 again nobody except the final 6 were told whats included etc -so how can people make comments on that aspect of things? Value for money? Were going to have an extra 30-50 hours flying time on top of Oxford and Jerez and 1500hours ground schooling as opposed to circa 800 in Jerez! Oh and regarding the dates being unconfirmed earlier in the programme-that i agree was frustraing and un-professional but the company is only launching the programme and were the first group! (CityJet were doing their audit back in Dec and werre unavailable for interviews which delayed alot of things!

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Post by Yossarian » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:36 am

No problem with reasoned debate and the questioning of the course at all, never disagree with that. However when someone goes off half-cocked asserting this and that when ignorant of the details it is a little frustrating.

To answer your question Mr. Bungle low hours pilots joining CityJet start as Second Officers until ATPL is unfrozen and then the extra gold bar appears.

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Post by oldtimeflyer » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:51 am

After being a long time reader of these forums, I couldn?t keep mum any longer. Short and sweet to the guys starting the Sigmar programme, congratulations. You have taken an opportunity to potentially take you to a flying position in fewer steps than others and be thankful you have the means to do so - 95K is a lot!

There?s a lot of negative opinions given here which have been stated as fact. It amuses me with the number of ?opinions? given on this forum from people who don?t even have a PPL! Even those with a CPL still preach as if they know all. 20 years in this aviation game and I still hardly have a notion so I suggest to some of you that you keep those thoughts that you ascertain as fact to yourself. Also caution who poses themselves as a ?student?. It's no secret there are 2-3 so called students on here that are CFI?s or Instructors at local flying schools. Ahem?

Anyway, that?s my two sense and you will find, to those who talk as if they wrote the book on aviation and training, what goes around comes around ? aviation is a very small and cut throat industry. Make of it as you will.

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Post by VNAV PTH » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:20 pm

I've been following this thread with intrest, but been holding off on any postings.

I understand the concerns of those who say that this programme costs too much, and that Sigmar are profiteering. I have to admit that I do think there is truth in those concerns.
However, as most of you who are in the business know, wanting to be a pilot is usually something that borders on obsession for those involved. Many would pay way over and above to get into the RHS of a commercial jet. Opportunities to get there are few and far between these days, especially for low-time, low-experience pilots.
To the guys heading off on the course, good luck. You've got a long and tough year ahead of you all. As long as you put in the study and effort it should work out just fine. Keep looking to the goal at the end, the RHS of the 146. (What a wonderful piece of British design :roll: :lol: )
Screw you guys.....I`m going home.......

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Post by hc77 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:55 pm

Thanks guys. Good to hear some good posts from people who are actually experienced pilots. Sick of people commenting when they don't even hold a ppl! Anymore experienced pilots out there with an opinion good or bad or advice please keep the comments coming.

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Post by Cosmic » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:07 pm

HC77, I work for a large European Airline having qualified in the not too distant past. It was a long and very rocky road at times. You will need some sheer bloody minded determination to get all the way to the finish line. By the end of it and after dealing with a few flight schools your "Bullshitometer" will be very finely tuned and you will look back to this time and see where some of the concerns expressed here come from.

As I said a few pages back, I have had my say and honestly wish you guys the best and hope to hear back from you.

Seperately, The other thing I would say to the aspiring commercial pilots, is that liek me at the beginning, you are overflowing with enthusiasim and I know from experience it can be blinding. I do enjoy my job and am thnakfull to be here, but it is just that; A Job. Lots of 4-5am starts, 10hr days, never seeing your friends and family at weekends, missing most social functions, constantly erroded terms and conditions and really crappy pay at the start.

To get this job is going to take a minimum of ?100,000 Euro. I can tell you I spent it easy but when you make the first monthly intstallment its like looking up from the bottom of everest, and I think its going to be a decade before I pay for it all. Its a very real burden and sometimes I cant sleep at night thinking about it.

Leon I was your age when I started too. I hate when people said it to me, and I cant believe I am saying it now but there is still a lot to learn at that age. You will become a lot wiserr over the next few years. I probably didn't fully appreciate what I was getting myself into financially, and there are, for sure, days when I wonder was it worth getting into. The price of entry might ultimatly have been to high.

I also don't know how I might feel after spending a long time in the industry, its seems to be constant slide in the wrong direction with working conditions. Someone liek Bearcat would be a lot more qualified to comment I imagine.

Best of luck again!
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

— Cecil Day Lewis

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Post by hc77 » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:21 pm

Thanks Cosmic!
This is what we need more of-some good professional advice. I understand its going to be a difficult road. I have a Business degree and weighing up my options I think I'd prefer to be flying rather than sitting in an office all day! A pilots starting salary is also a lot better than a starting
Business graduates salary so I can justify the big loan. It'll be hard at the start but so what, I'll be living my dream and flying!!!

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Post by leon4444 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:44 am

I agree! Every1 who starts now is looking at a few years of tough work with little money.

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Post by Georges Pompidou » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:14 pm

I agree! Every1 who starts now is looking at a few years of tough work with little money.


Leon, I strongly, very strongly, advise you to keep gems of wisdom such as this to yourself when you start flying the 146. Your colleagues will not react at all well to those who feel that little money is appropriate recompense for putting up with the large doses of hassle and crap that are part and parcel of flying for Cityjet.

Cosmic, some wise words there. Well said.

leon4444
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Post by leon4444 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:26 pm

What are u saying exactly? That CityJet are not a good company to work for? Do you know something that we dont?

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Post by Dutch Roll » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:03 pm

my friend is paying 80k for training in madrid with over 500 hours when finished.but im afraid your screwed if your not spanish!!!
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Post by Cosmic » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:37 pm

Leon Cityjet have a bit of a reputation as a crap employer. However I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the "Good employers" left. <<Edit, And I don't work for one of them anyway :( >>
Last edited by Cosmic on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

— Cecil Day Lewis

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Post by leon4444 » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:34 pm

Well Cosmic i think its just a case of sitting this out! At the end we are all going to know the outcome...good or bad!

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