[sean]

if the air corps are jetting six new heli's why dont they get new fighter jets.I know they have the new pc-10s but why didnt they get new fighter jets after the old maigesters or why dont get new ones now?

[stovepipe]

Hi Sean
Because they cost too much to buy and operate, for one. The Government have basically devolved air defence of the State above ten thousand feet to outside agencies. They recently bought, in a bit of a hurry, 40 Bofors anti-aircraft guns from the Dutch government and along with the existing light SAMs, have fulfilled the requirement up to 10,000ft. After that, they'll have to ask the neighbours to intervene, if it all goes pear-shaped. The PC-9s offer only a token defence, having only a limited armament capability and everybody knows and accepts this. In the same fashion, why do the Army have no main battle tanks, no artillery heavier than 105mm (and before anyone says they have 120mm mortars,get real. They are short-ranged and the shells are too small), no heavy SAMs,no independent airlift capability,etc. Nor have the Navy true combat vessels(i.e, no frigates or destroyers), no submarines, no naval helicopters, no anti-submarine capability....It's all smoke and mirrors, really. The PDF have to do the best they can with what they've got and it has always been so and will continue to be so until the next crisis.
regards
S

[Frosty]

WHAT would be the point in our Air Corp getting jets?
They are not an air force but an army Air Corp. Jets would cost millions to operate, and all the money would come straight from your back pocket
We have absolutely no need for fighter jets. One of the main things our air corp do is fishery patrols and ho useful would a Tornado going at 600mp/h over a decrepid Spanish trawler. Ireland is also a neutral country and doesn't take part in wars.
Fighters would be useless

[sean]

frosty if you have looked at the messages left in the forum about the new air corps heli's some people thought that ireland were prepering to join nato.This idea is most lightly not true but if it was and Ireland went to war what use a pc-9 or an aloutte III agenest a MIG fighter or gunship :

[Biturbo]

What will we do if the Welsh try to invade???

[pensive]

Start growing f*kin leeks quick. Might appease them for a few minutes before we are called upon to surrender the entire national stock of sheep! The woollier the better! Then let 'em take the poor animals up to the Cliffs of Moher so they back into............!

[sean]

ha, ha ,ha your all so funny ' mr biturbo' and ' 'mr pensive'

[Bob]

We have absolutely no need for fighter jets.

I'd agree with you to a certain extent the only reason I wouldn't fully agree with you is that there is a new treat with suicide bombers and jet airliners and been a major part of the link between America and the UK we face a conciderable risk. I would say it would be nice to have maybe 2 fast jets sitting on the ready at Casement just incase of such a treat. Maybe on loan or somthing.

some people thought that ireland were prepering to join nato.

These heli's have nothing to do with joining NATO, maybe thats what the hippies want you to think , the idea of those heli's is to provide a medium lift for the Rangers and support on U.N. peacekeeping missions.

[Frosty]

I'd agree with you to a certain extent the only reason I wouldn't fully agree with you is that there is a new treat with suicide bombers and jet airliners and been a major part of the link between America and the UK we face a conciderable risk. I would say it would be nice to have maybe 2 fast jets sitting on the ready at Casement just incase of such a treat. Maybe on loan or somthing.

What in the name of god is a suicide bomber going to fly into in Ireland? A field maybe?

As I said before, jets are going to cost the nation millions a year to operate, and for no reason. What use is a fighter jet going to be against a hi-jacked A320? If it shoots it down its probably going to kill even more people than if it didn't touch it. It pointless.

[stovepipe]

Hi all
Some of you need to be clued-in to the real cost of operating even the most basic of jet aircraft, not to mind jet fighters. It costs more to operate something as basic as a Fouga than it does to operate a Citation or a Learjet. Their engines have much,much shorter overhaul lives, their components have had much shorter production runs and are correspondingly more costly to purchase and overhaul, they burn stupid amounts of fuel,are operated under harsher operating conditions and are grossly expensive to arm. The same applies to helicopters built to a Military standard, such as the Gazelle and Dauphin.
As for the Rangers getting helos, I agree that they should have their own autonomous helicopter unit.You will have noticed that they are using Vietnam-vintage Bell 212s in East Timor, which makes perfect sense instead of transporting our own machines around the globe.
regards
S

[dowlingm]

Ireland could do what the Baltic States are doing: outsource a QRA detachment.

Some RAF Tornado F3s are out in Lithuania to operate for them, the Estonians and Latvians. They are there for 3 months, relieving the Danes and Belgians who did previous stints.

The Government could do a deal with the Dutch or someone else to station a flight of 4 F-16s at SNN to handle intercepts of non-transmitting aircraft, such as the PIA 747 intercepted by RAF today. The French are also very quick to send up Mirages if the radio is off!

Alternatively Ireland could have kept the 5 CF-18s that landed at SNN recently

[JimboJetset]

i dont think we need to worry about suicide bombers attacking ireland just yet, at least not until we start interfering in other areas of the world and arming tyranical regimes with WMD's the way the United States has done in its pursuit of global hegemony and cheap oil.

saying that, our own government is making a mocker of our neutrality by aiding homicide bombers passing through shannon airport every week on their way to iraq.

[historical-avi-irl.i8.com]

I agree we don't really need any fighter aircraft, but why couldn't we buy some 2nd hand light strike aircraft so we can have a Silver Swallows team like the one that won the 1997 International RAF Air Tattoo.
They don't need to be armed, except for maybe one, incase a hi-jacked terrorist airliner enters our aerospace, and lets face it; the Pilatus' can't go 500MPH.
All I can say in conclusion, is that the day that the Fouga's were retired, it ended a reputation in the Irish Air Corp, of being the best in the world at something (Aerobatic's), and always showing that our small isle could show something for its "Aviation" self.

You may or may not agree, but as someone, thinking of joining the Air Corps, (Or at least Trying), in the near future, I can say, I like the idea of being national aviation hero's, and showing up at Airshow's preforming amazing stunts, which wow crowds as much, if not more than the RAF or the French Air Force.

[FireFoxDown]

the idea of those heli's is to provide a medium lift for the Rangers and support on U.N. peacekeeping missions.

When have the IAC ever been deployed abroad in the field? (No "field" jokes please! )

The question i have - what is the point of the Air Corps? They've just got all these nice shiny new toys but what are they going to do with them?? I mean ?40,000,000 a year!! Fishery patrol - ok, fair enough. Ministerial Air Transport - ok. But the rest? Pointless! (In my opinion. . . )


And as for Tornadoes(or whatever) - are you taking the piss?

[Turkey]

The Air Corps is there to provide air-support to the army and the NS and that should be about the height of it.
Obviously we should have interceptors for only one reason, because we have a country.I know that there are many people out there who consider that we do not need defence, I cannot understand that attuide, and will not accept it until I see some cast iron proof that this is the case, I am not holding my breath.
As for some of the other functions of the Air Corps, Helicopters should be operated by the fire brigade and Garda.The present arrangement seems a bit silly to me.
This would leave a 'core' role for the Irish Air Corps, dealing with defence matters only, with it's too small budget.