Its really hit the fan now !!!

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Cosmic
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Post by Cosmic »

Chaos, I can see a slim possibility of GA being allowed into Baldonnel. A Very Slim, super slim chance. I would be willing to put money that there is no chance of Airlines being allowed in there. Its already been indicated by the Government that its not going to happen. I do think it would be the answer to a lot of problems with Weston, to let them into Bal. There are many shared airports around Europe that work just fine and dandy. Valliolid and Cuatro Vientos in Spain are just two that spring to mind.
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

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cliste
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Post by cliste »

Yes why can't we adopt the Spanish model of Military and GA together it works very well. In Cuatro Vientos its military on one side and GA on the other. Shared runway but two different ramps.

What a pity about Weston ! The Baldonnel option could be workable by having an entrance by the CRH building and putting in some facilities.

Do you lobby Ralph or Bertie or perhaps both and when you think about it Jim is just a pitching wedge away also ! or is he "persona non grata" .

When Dublin Gliding Club used the facilities at Baldonnel it ended I suppose because of Security I'm sure that this could be overcome today.


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airbrained
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Post by airbrained »

There's an example even closer to home: RAF Aldergrove on one side of the runway in Belfast, a major civil and GA airport on the other.

Of course this will never happen in Baldonnel, where they have such huge "security" considerations (unlike Belfast, of course.... !)

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Post by shrtfld »

The USA is another place that allows dual military (especially National Guard Units) and civilian traffic share runway and airfield facilities. After all Military and Civil share the airspace - a few restrictions apart.

A pie in the sky suggestion might be as follows.

If the Govt were to lease Baldonnel to a civilian operator period to allow alternative civilian ops take place - more or less exclusively. The Dublin Airport Authority could take it under their wing. They retain part of the airport for the Govt Biz Jets and as a reception point for visiting VIP's. Part of Bal could be sold of for development (possibly aviation associated services).

Then find a green field site 30/40 k west of Dublin adjacent to the M3, M4 or M7 and build a new facility for the Aircorps - one with better and more modern facilities and fewer airspace restrictions caused by the Dublin CTR which must be causing difficulty for military ops too. My info (hearsay I admit) is that Bal is not the most modern facility about.

The new Aircorps base could be funded by the proceeds of the part selloff of Baldonnell and secondly by the rent / returns from the new operator.

As an aside the fun of anyone trying to get to Dublin Airport by road now is such that many people outside the pale won't use it unless as a last resort. No doubt about it the solution to the capitals air transport difficulties is at Bal.

Anyway as I said - pie in the sky.

By the way do locals kick up about Bal? Probably not because no developer has been allowed put an estate of houses a couple of hundred yards from the threshold.
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Post by dowlingm »

shrtfld

Why build a new AC base? Plenty of underused airfields about. It would be a good subsidy to have for a regional airport to be able to afford better navaids etc.

Anybody know which of WAT/KIR/SXL/CFN/GWY/NOC has the best record in being open weatherwise? After the Air Corps crash near WAT a few years back I would assume them to be out of the running? KIR always seems to be available for Cork diverts.

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Post by EiMPB »

I agree with Chaos, I want to know whats happening with Weston, and I think we deserve an answer! I personaly am just about to start training with the NFC once my arm heals and I'd like to know where I stand! If I'm going to have to finish in waterford, I'd rather do it all there!!

We, as the users of the facility, deserve an answer and I do think that the removal of the current facilities are a real blow to the aerodrome and are just the start of more to come.

The forementioned "BIG J" has nothing to loose by selling weston, infact he stands to make a fortune should it be re-zoned, and I think as was previously stated once the ryder cup is gone so is the aerodrome!

Surely there is something that can be done! They must realise what a well used and loved place this is and that it will be a huge loss to aviation in Ireland!

Do the IAA have no say in the planning matters??

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Post by RV BLUE »

Ei-MPB wrote:I
We, as the users of the facility,


"We" as you know is a collective word. There has been many attempts to organize groups to have a say in what goes on in Irish general aviation but unfortunatly for what ever reason they have fizzeled out. Without a group effort there is little or nothing you can hope for as far as what is going to happen. You as an individual are at the mercy of the IAA/ Mr "J" or whatever...little or no hope I'm afraid.......

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Post by Chaos »

RV-BLUE you've hit the nail on the head.

Just on that specific point of the GA community coming together. I posted a separate thread entitled AOPA Ireland which is within the Irish General Aviation forum. I bascially asked if AOPA Ireland is currently active as there were all sorts of speculative comments on various other websites mentioning they had "collapsed".

However, a real indication of the total apathy prevailing across the GA community is suggested by the fact just a single reply was received.

Here is that reply from FieldFlyer, his 1st post on this site by the way:

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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Fear not, Chaos, work is in hand to create one. Look up aeroclub.ie, forums, and "national association for general aviation".
All support will be appreciated!"

It's time we got our arses in gear and started networking with one another in an attempt to protect our hobby. It's ironic so many airlines are seeking fATPL. Notably, the likes of Ryanair has fed from the wannabe watering hole for a steady stream of new recruits. With the way things are going the authorities are slowly cutting off the supply of future potential commercial pilots to the industry in Ireland and beyond.

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Post by Vmax »

I think it would be a wise move for the flight schools at Weston to start looking elsewhere aerodrome wise.Having spoken to someone who works for JM at Westons new terminal last week,i got the impression that the leases for the flight schools expire at the end of the year, maybe someone could confirm or denie this.They will not be renewed as they want to focus solely on the corporate market

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Post by RV BLUE »

JM really has his own agenda, there is no doubt about that. The writing was on the wall a long time ago. Dublin has no intention of handeling the corporate traffic that is growing worldwide. This is a market where bucket loads of money are there for the takeing. American FBO giant Signiture Flight Services took over (baught out) the provider at Dublin and I expect they will run Weston as soon as JM gets everything in place. Dublin services were so far behind the curve they would never catch up....example....a Gulfstream V arrives in for an overnight stay at Dublin and takes on a whopping load of fuel. When the crew askes for the oxyegen tanks to be topped off flight line crew tells the pilots that as far as they were concerned the "tanks would need to be removed" for them to be topped off. I'm suer JM has, as I have, had the pleasure of arriving at a Signiture facility and availed of their wonderful services. I hope JM gets it off the ground and shows up the "lads " at Aer Rianta.

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Post by Cosmic »

It must be my pessimistic nature, but am I the only one that can see another major load of hassle if they were to shut off GA in Weston and switch to Biz Jets? And don't forget havent Weston agreed to have a wingspan Limitation imposed on them? I can't recall the figures but won't it only allow the smaller biz jets in? And if you were sitting on a propert goldmine, and for the sake of a quiet life wouldn't you just take the squillions you could get just by walking away? I think Weston park is about to get extended unfortunately......

(I also couldn't possibly suggest that a deal might be brokered behind closed doors where the land would get re-zoned in exchange for the airfield being shut.)
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

— Cecil Day Lewis

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Post by dowlingm »

It makes me so mad when I see Mansfield thumbing his nose at the planning authorities, Dublin-Collinstown in an ongoing shambles and Bord na Mona proposing an airport in a bog ffs and there's Baldonnel, right beside N7/Kildare rail line/outer ring road.

If decentralisation is good enough for the rest of the CivServ it should be good enough for the Air Corps, with the understanding that money raised from leasing Baldonnel to a civil airport operator would be spent on ongoing upgrades to the Air Corps fleet as has happened with the barracks divestment. Let's face it, most of the GA/bizjet ops are going to be quieter than the Fougas used to be! Govt/cop ops can stay at Bal or go to DUB so Bertie can ride the nonexistent metro!

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Post by Cosmic »

From todays Indo

New blow for developer as hotel plan rejected

MULTI-millionaire property developer Jim Mansfield has been dealt a third blow to his dreams of developing west county Dublin.

Already in trouble for the unauthorised development of hangars at Weston Aerodrome in Lucan, now Mr Mansfield's hotel and conference centre scheme at the small airport has been refused planning permission by An Bord Pleanala.

Last year HSS Ltd, which is a company owned by Mr Mansfield, was fined for beginning work without planning permission on a giant conference centre at City West.

The latest blow for him comes as An Bord Pleanala upheld a decision by South Dublin County Council to refuse planning permission for a 95-bedroom hotel and a 400-seater conference centre and leisure facility in the grounds of Weston Airport.

Last February the council refused permission for the construction of a hotel and conference and leisure centre there.

Mr Mansfield, through HSS/Sean Lucy and Associates Ltd of Mount St Gardens, Mullingar, appealed the refusal from the council, but yesterday the board upheld the decision of the council.

An Bord Pleanala said it was considered that the proposed development would detract from the character and setting of the protected structure of Weston Park House.

Lorna Reid
We who fly do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet.

— Cecil Day Lewis

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Post by Bearcat »

i think thats the final nail that'll see big J begin to back off from the place.....his plans are in tatters...as someone said he'll wrap it up post the ryder cup.

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Post by RV BLUE »

I'm not so sure about that, he could go to a higher court.

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