Seats Available? An Experiment please help.

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Cosmic
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Seats Available? An Experiment please help.

Post by Cosmic »

I saw this before on a few different websites. I thought I would give it a try on here and see how it works out. It may fall flat on its arse or be a great success.

There are people out there who would like to go flying but can't always swing the cash or maybe they can no longer hold a medical, whatever they would love to go flying as a Passenger.

There are those that go flying on a regular basis, often on their own, and wouldn't mind some "talking freight" just to have a chat to. They have exhausted their friends and family with pleasure trips and/or they fly weekdays when no one else is available. Maybe they are just qualified and while more then able, wouldn't mind someone qualified to bring along as moral support.

Lets try and follow a format something like the one below (nicked off PPRuNe sorry "Dublin Pilot")

1. Where you are flying from.
2. Date & time
3. Who you are willing to take. eg. non-flying child, non-flying adult, student pilot, low hour pilot, high hour pilot, pilot with specific experience that you hope to learn from.
4. Costs. Is the seat free, or do you expect the passenger to pay the landing fee, buy lunch, or make a token contribution?

So who wants to get the ball rolling? Go on be brave.

ronnie3585
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Post by ronnie3585 »

I think its a great idea, but im not sure if its entirely viable. Does the country really have that amount og GA traffic to support such a system? I think that I someone is flying from A to B then they would ask someone from within the club.
Anyway thats my 2 cents, but I would love if this scheme really worked.

Cosmic
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Post by Cosmic »

Well there are enough people out there who could offer it but the question is will they? Its often been found that there are not as many takers as first expected.

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Post by YoYo »

Good luck Cosmic

I tried this about 3 years ago on the Irish Aviators Website. I did not get 1 person to offer seat time - other than myself. On the couple of times I did offer seats the responses were rather 'limp'.

The main problem with the idea is that of timing. I might fly tomorrow but will I feel like taking someone with me? I can only answer that question about an hour before I fly - too loate to invite a stranger via the internet

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Post by Frosty »

In theory its a great idea, but in practice maybe its not. The main problem is that essentially what a pilot is doing, is inviting strangers into his/her aircraft, which most pilots wouldn't be too over anxious about doing.
And secondly, the majority of members on this forum don't own their own aircraft, but are just enthusiasts, so there's not going to be that much choice..... It might work, and if it did, it'd be a brilliant scheme, but I have my reservations..... :)
Regards,
Aidan

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Post by lazza »

not to mention the insurance implications if an accident occured, they'd take you to the cleaners

/L

on yer six
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Post by on yer six »

don't be foolish and have renters insurance. forget the club insurance. cover yer arse it's cheap self preservation.

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Post by lazza »

yeah, but... in the event of a fatality the family can, and will, sue the registered owner of the aircraft for a figure generally far more than what the owner is insured for, my 5mil third party insurance costs 8,000 per year, tied with the other bills the aircraft costs over 1,000 per month before I even fly it, I'd feel hard pressed to let some person I'd never met get a free seat, I'm not a mean person and personaly feel generous, but these bills hurt my pocket and I've given up pleanty of other money gobbling pass times in order to keep flying. I have no problems bringing friends, aircraft owners or PPL/SPL's flying, but I spend a considerable percentage of my income on my flying kicks and I'm sure as hell not going to give free rides to whoever just comes along.

Flying in aeroclubs is not relativly expensive, dinner for two and a couple of jars in the pub is about the same for an hours rental out in Weston, I'd bet these free loaders would spend considerably more in the pubs telling of their free flying experience, free to them that is.

If you REALLY want to fly, you will find the money, the same goes for anything in this world, if you really want it you will get it.

/L

tu154
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Insurance, something that has bothered me.

Post by tu154 »

on-yer-six wrote:don't be foolish and have renters insurance. forget the club insurance. cover yer arse it's cheap self preservation.


Interesting. I self fly hire (helis) with the school I trained with. What is this 'renters insurance' you speak of and where is is available?
When self flying, what insurance do you typically get by hiring from a school?

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Free seats and renters insurance

Post by shrtfld »

I see Lazza's point about taking strangers with you. A formal blank invite to strangers does not appeal to me. However when I was a student (fado, fado) PPLs around Coonagh if they had an empty seat used to take me a long for the air experience. This I always appreciated. I learned a lot particularly from the late Bryan Carpenter. Today I try to return the favour and if going to refresh air work or to do some circuit bashing I will try take one of the current crop of students along - or a less experienced PPL. This way you at least know who is with you and you dictate the invite. I think this a much a better scheme - but works only on the spur of the moment.

Renters insurance I know a little about. I just had not come across the concept here in ireland. Is such a thing available here?

How the renters insurance works (in the USA where I came across it) is that if you are hiring an aircraft from an FBO or flight school- there is usually an excess of between $5,000 and $10,000 in the event you bend the airplane. What one can do (I have a policy myself) is insure to protect you from the excess. The cover actually goes further. If you bend an airplane where you are deemed to be negligent - the FBO's insurance will pay for the damage over and above the excess - initially and then sue you personally for their loss! It makes you wonder what insurance cover is for. Most FBO's will not allow you hire their aircraft unless you have Renters Insurance in place or you sign a statement accepting you are liable for the excess.

The renters insurance I have is through AOPA USA of which I am a member - btw theirs is without doubt the best pilot magazine anywhere!
It only covers me flying N regd aircraft in the USA. You need an FAA licence, a current BFR and an address in the USA to effect the policy. Cost was approx $225 for twelve months. It gives you a lot a peace of mind. The alternative is sign the acceptance of liability for the excess on renting and make sure you don't bend the airplane.
Shrtfld

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Post by OnTheNumbers »

Hi Cosmic,

To balance the CYA tone, which I understand, I think this is a good idea.
From my own perspective I'd appreciate a spare seat to try shallow out my learning curve. I'm heading into the cross county phase of my training and would like some time just navigating rather than navigating and aviating.


David

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some look at things that are, and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not? " -- G.B.Shaw

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Post by Bearcat »

I trust we are all in the picture of carrying pax for reward which it basically is, so i presume each and every one of you will operating under the min standard of a CPL. No matter what way you look at it , it is deemed carrying pax for reward.I think it is a good idea but hole open for litigation if it goes wrong. Should your aircraft be not in a company name your family assets are on the table should you happen to park it in a crowded area with a reasonable velocity. Public liability insurance is generally 5m stg going up to 7M stg under crown indemnity which wont cover all claims.

Just be very very careful. People are all smiles when they want to go for a free ride but when it goes even a little wrong they'll be the first knocking on their solicitors door. Mantitory reports you'll have to file with the IAA/CAA and if they sniff any irregularities you may find that you'll be looking at your beloved aircraft from the other side of the fence.

Best of luck.

Nice idea Cosmic...park it unless to complies with the IAA and your respective insurance company and at that stage your premium will have jumped 500%

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Filling empty seats

Post by shrtfld »

Hi Bearcat

I note your comment about hire and reward. Just in case there is any doubt I have always refused payment (offering to share the cost of fuel )from students and pax at the club for this very reason. Equally important though is that I got freebies when I was a student - I am returning the compliment. On-the-numbers point is also vadid. I find that when I do bring one of the club members along they actually spend a lot of time noting physical landmarks which they had not time to take in while training - especially those in the early stages.

I presume there are no insurance issues in a club environment in that the aircraft are insured for club activities - flying for fun with no aspect of reward.
Shrtfld

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Post by Bearcat »

Great to see interesting posts back on the board. We all benefit with such good posts. By the way has anyone got a univair catalog handy I can borrow. I am WT based. Thanks.

Cosmic
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Post by Cosmic »

I'm a little dissapointed at the instant negativity but we suffer from that a little in this country. Theres a big gap between hire and reward and buying someone a sambo or a pint or a landing fee after a flight, lets be realistic Bearcat.

Its come to nothing then, but hey, its great to see some more activity on this board. If I only achieve that, then I am happy. I'd love to see more people on here.

(P.S I'm ok I'm going flying a C340 from the UK to South of France next weekend, I got my seat sorted out!)

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