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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:36 pm
:D Re-Weston everybody fits expensive exhaust mufflers and silent run propellers. End of hassle for at least a fortnight. Til Joe Property gets his dander up about some thing else. Lets try and push really hard for gormanston . There is to be a large container port there with rail and m/way links sooooooo why not a GA facility there are some politicians who would really like to see the stranglehold that Dublin holds on the east coast ended. DEL :? :shock: :( :) Manic about an alternative to Weston

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:05 am
by Bearcat
DEL I agree that a viable alternate is needed for weston. The planners are choking the place. No touch and go s now on 07.....northern taxi way closed UFN..... if it all doesnt go to plan it could easily turn into a heliport. There is a massive increase in heli movements there now.

Re Gormanstown, this is doomed for redevlopment and being reasonably close to a left down wind for rwy 10 and a right base for 28.....the IAA wouldnt have it.


Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:33 am
by angelshigh
Agree....Remove sticky and lets us get on complaining aobut something else !!!!!!!! :shock:

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:37 pm
by Chaos
Guys re:unsticking this thread, etc. Fact is Weston is the defacto GA installation on the outskirts of the capital. Issues affecting Weston have direct impacts upon all with a GA interest, irrespective whether you reside in Dublin or elsewhere. With RWY 29/11 off limits at EIDW many folks in the dublin and surrounding regions rely upon facilities like Weston or Trim, etc. Some of the issues being aired are very relevant and have real affects which we all must share. The fact so many posts reside within this thread gives you some idea of the level of interest in this specific subject. In my humble opinion, I think its important we keep any posts relevant to the Weston facility together under the one thread. Weston is in a state of flux at the moment, things are quite fluid - we all need be on the ball for our hobbies sake at least.


Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:09 pm
by mark
Hi guys,

Topic unstuck....


Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:21 pm
by lazza
Issues affecting Weston have direct impacts upon all with a GA interest, irrespective whether you reside in Dublin or elsewhere

Chaos, how does Weston's operations directly affect any operators who do not fly there?

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:03 pm
:) Correct about the circuits for Dub viz a viz Gormanston There is also the sea so restrictions there for training. But all are well used to the matz there and one is outside the ctr l/l...1500 ends at Skerries/Naul intersects. If we dont bang on now about the very serious need for GA@Gorman. We will get zilch .Start shouting now very loudly . I believe I already have one councillor on board . HELP >SHOUT NOW>very loudly . :) :D .DEL

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:04 pm
by Cosmic
I originally asked Mark to make this a sticky thread and he kindly did it. There was a new topic nearly every week at one stage and there was no on coherent place to talk about it. I think this has now been achieved with this thread, and it doesn't need to be a sticky anymore. It would be good though, if it was kept as the universal thread on this topic, which I am sure it will.

Chaos, how does Weston's operations directly affect any operators who do not fly there?

Lazza, I think your very naive if you don't realize that whats happening at Weston could have a very significant for GA airfields in the rest of Ireland. Lets say for example, the worst case scenario occurs and the airfield was shut. The noise protestors win. A precedent has now been set for the next group of people who build houses underneath the finals of another airport runway. Coonagh being an example of this, although I have to admit I only know a fraction of the story about it, but I can see those houses creeping closer and closer from the air. GA needs to be a bit more united in Ireland, waiting until problems are on your doorstep is not a good strategy.

Theres no good reason that anyone can give for not having shared facilities in Baldonnel, its got all the facilities and would only need extra ATC support, but its just the same problem again, that the Government doesn't want to know about GA.

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:56 pm
by lazza
I think these days the reality is that airfields get sold as pure property & profit reasons, not giving into neighbours, example castlebridge - leisure centre, castlebar - shopping centre, powerscourt - golf course, all of these airfields had problems with NIMBY's but money was the reason they went.

The only airfiled that has been shut because of nimbys(to the best of my knowledge) was wicklow about 2 years ago, but this was more down to navajo's arriving and departing without a care in the world for the noise sensitive locals. Kilrush is an example of how things should operate, strict flight paths avoiding noise sensiteve houses and the hard work and determination of Ian Valentine in involving the locals with the airfield and getting them on side.

How can you call approx ?10k per annum hangerage a help to light aviation? this is about five times what anyone else charges, waterford charge ?700 approx and they have ndb, ils, ATC & dme facilities. And don't use the old one about being close to dublin, most pilots fly the irregularly that the extra 20 mins to trim or kilrush don't make a difference over the year. Also don't make the point about investment, the runoff and taxiway are unuseable, the clubhouse is a lot better, but one years hangerage would pay for that, the new rate hangerage.

The truth of the mater is that cessna type light aircraft are not really welcome at weston and are being priced out of the place (IMHO) to make way for private jets, from a business point of view thats what I'd do, they up lift more fuel in one hit than NFC probabaly use in a day.

Flying out of kilrush beats weston hands down (IMHO) the people, facilites & commadaire leave weston for dead, to me kilrush is what light aviation is all about, Weston appears to be more about the car you drive rather than how you fly aircraft.

I think weston's old character has died, and it's sadly missed.

Chaos, if you really believe that whatever happens to weston will happen else where, does that mean that we'll all have 10grand hangerage and can sit a nice coffee dock and look at our planes, cos, at 10 grand hangerage & 10 insurance I sure as hell won't have any money left over for fuel!

Encroaching developments

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:02 am
by shrtfld
As someone who flys out of Coonagh I agree the city is getting uncomfortably close. However the bypass (Condell Road) is a buffer for now in terms of development from the city side. I think it is fair to say we are conscious of noise abatement without anyone putting pressure on us. There is sufficient room for turning finals onto 28 no lower than 500/700 ft agl.

Equally on weekends there are no early morning ops (eg circuits before 10am local).

I would however point out to visitors to remember all circuits at Coonagh are to the south of the airfield (l/h on 28 and r/h on 10). Avoid overflying residential developments to the north east of the airfield if at all possible. Equally we discourage heli training ops when the wind favours 10 - can be very noisy for our neighbours to the west.

In the debate of Weston over Kilrush, if someone wanted to use Kilrush as an alternative to Weston what is the situation for getting into Dublin for meetings etc. Is there public transport or taxis available? What does the trip take to the city centre? On occasion when I get the weather I use Weston where the guys in the tower are very obliging by calling a taxi for me.

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:18 am
by Biturbo
Kilrush is not really an alternative to Weston in that respect - It's more a place for us Dubliners to keep our toys, than for anybody else to use as a transport node for getting into the city.

It's thirty miles from my house and an hour's drive if I'm lucky. Most of the way there is motorway, but the dual carriageway in the middle is now a 60kmh zone. The nearest conurbation is actually Athy. The airfield is five miles south-west of Kilcullen which is itself the far side of Naas. Public transport is non-existent and if you did call a taxi, they would have a really hard time trying to find you (I used a GPS to find the place first time I went there by road).

So it's not really a viable option for people looking to visit Dublin, which is kind of the point of the place...

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:10 am
by lazza
I know the 60kmh bit in the middle slows thing up, but you can make up the speed on the little road into the field which is an 80!


Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:43 pm
by Chaos
lazza, you make valida agruments however, it will be wrong for us to simply just focus upon the specific points you have cited.

We go to look at ALL the issues collectively. ALL of the issues combined are killing general aviation in Ireland. It's got so bad, I'm sure many of you out there will agree when I say, I sometimes wonder if GA is on a list of things to kill in this country. There must be a happy medium at some point but I'm afraid the 'authorities' just do not appear to have pilots and a/c owners 'real' interests at the top of their list. Of course, they will say this type of spin is baseless but look at the facts . . . the GA environment in Ireland has definitely changed for the worst. The fun is been taken from the hobby - its terrible!

I know there have been many attempts to have a unified voice since the collapse of AOPA in this country. The longer we a community of aviators don't have such a lobby group then weak we will become in having our voices heard.

Kilrush, Trim and the likes are very likely gonna become the next port of call for many aviatiors if Weston's chargest are not curtailed. IMHO I think there are far, far too many factors in play which could affect Westons future - its so uncertain. The site alone is worth millions to JM whether its rezoned residental or mixed commercial (hotel), etc. I personally believe the biz jet and new rwy is a medium term business plan but long term the field may be closed at which stage the lands will have increased significantly in market value. Nothing is certain these days. Any businessman worth his salt will kill a current project if there was a more lucrative project worth pursuing with less risks, etc.

Sorry for coming across doom gloom but we gotta be pragmatic and realistic.

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:56 pm
by Cosmic
shrtfld, I understand that Coonagh is on a year by year Lease? I would think that for the sake of a quiet life, at the first sign of any hassle with the neighbours that lease would not be renewed as easily, or if a developer gets their beady eyes on the land.

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:43 pm
by Bearcat
Chaos..I agree 100% with you..Its not morbid but facing reality. If big Jim doesnt pull his mighty plan off those new hangars will be taken down and erected else where. People talk of a green zone for weston.....If big Jim got so fed up with planners he at the whim of a phone call can close weston down. There's only so much crap some one can take from the authorities. Planning for houses would be pushed through in no time as the lands are a natural progression for devlopment in relation to whats around it. I dearly hope this never happens as we are all knackered then.