Weston

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Chaos
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Weston

Post by Chaos »

Weston looks like its finally coming up to scratch as a quality GA facility. Are they any plans to install an ILS and lights. It would appear to me this will be a very progressive step. Any comments?

Cosmic
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Post by Cosmic »

In my not very informed opinion (Big Bar Stool expert), it would be very hard to justify the expenditure of an ILS for such a small field with relatively small amounts of movements. Your talking Millions for all of that, although if they are ever hoping to get night Ops in there with the VOR they will certainly need some lighting.

And then theres the problems with the neigh.. Oops, forgot, Don't mention the war!........

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Post by fixer »

VOR is fine for the operations that will be carried out. No lighting would make the airfield a complete waist of time especially in this climate, As for IFR ops this will raise the visibility minima for any approach day or night. At uncontrolled aerodromes like Weston PAL (Pilot activated Lighting) would be the way to go. PAL systems are installed throughout the US and Australia at uncontrolled aerodromes works a treat.
Plus you'd be pretty peeved if you decided to base your shiny new jet in weston only realising you have to be back before it got dark. they need not have bothered.

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Post by Cosmic »

The neighbours are going to go into convulsions if there is any consideration of 24 Hour operation. They already are and the field doesn't operate before 9 in the morning and most of the year is quiet before 5. Can you imagine whats going to happen when a Lear or a Gulfstream lands at 3 a.m over those house on the threshold.

I really do despair and wonder where its all going to end. The Airfield will not and should not be forced to curtail their activites but the neighbours aren't going to back down especially if it goes from being a field with a mostly Piston engine singles to Jets. Thats another thread though I suppose.

historical-avi-irl.i8.com
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Post by historical-avi-irl.i8.com »

Cosmic Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject:

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In my not very informed opinion (Big Bar Stool expert), it would be very hard to justify the expenditure of an ILS for such a small field with relatively small amounts of movements. Your talking Millions for all of that, although if they are ever hoping to get night Ops in there with the VOR they will certainly need some lighting.

And then theres the problems with the neigh.. Oops, forgot, Don't mention the war!........

We'll if you look at the facts, since the early 90's Weston has been Ireland's second most used airport- I understand what your saying about you not being an expert on the subj., but infairness- on that theory- why should Cork have ILS; it's currently financialy unviable and isn't used as much as Weston!

Also the problems with the neighbours is a simple one:
Without trying to sound bias towards aviation!!!, Weston's operaters have already claimed that the aerodrome was there before the local housing estates and at the moment seem in the resonable clear- not to say the battle won't go on!

hugoj_air
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Post by hugoj_air »

Many OLD airfields and airstrips in England had their activities
severely curtailed or were even closed by down all together by
local councils when some NEW residients complained, so longevity
does'nt always count. Dont think that age will win over constsiuients,
when votes are at stake. And dont think it could never happen in
Ireland.

Hugo.

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Post by FLYbyWIT »

In relation to Weston being much busier then the likes of Cork and what justifies an ILS in Cork. Well Weston is busier due to the amount of aircraft movements and these are mainly light singles for training purposes and general aviation which can account for a huge number of movements. The majority of these certainly do not need an instrument procedure for there circuit training. Weston is primarily a GA field and only now is commercial operations becoming a viable option. Cork airport accomodates relatively heavier commercial traffic due to its location to a big city and thus needs to facilitate demand by operators who wish to service its population. Dublin of course has EIDW for this purpose with weston not been utilised. So even though Weston might be the second busiest in Ireland this does not nescessarily justify this planned expenditure but westons location to the city will, However I still cant see business operators swarming to weston in the numbers you may think.

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Post by Cosmic »

Without trying to sound bias towards aviation!!!, Weston's operaters have already claimed that the aerodrome was there before the local housing estates and at the moment seem in the resonable clear- not to say the battle won't go on!


Byron, I could not agree more with the Operators. I have vented my spleen on this very forum about this subject before, but common sense does not come into it with these people.

They bought a house literally a stones throw from the threshold and under short finals but I have a horrible sinking feeling that they will eventually get their way.

They have played the media, especially thr Gutter Press, beautifully. I would imagine someone with PR training is involved. They have played the angle of shocking newspaper headlines:

"Terror struck Child horrorified struck as 747-400 owning greedy arrogant wealthy playboy performs emergency flyby of weston at 800 mph"

Mrs Molloys Son David was a happy child until they moved under the threshold of Weston airport. He was out playing with his toys when a 747 flew dangerously low over the house and smashed the windows. he hasn't been able to fly kites in the flight path since."

They Played that angle of the selfish rich playboys and their toys terrorising the poor honest hardworking people who only want a place to live in peace.

I'm sorry to say it but I think they will eventually win this. i am not saying its going to happen any time soon, but eventually they will cave in, and/or the land will just become too valuable to justify not building more white boxes.

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great progress

Post by robertd »

I Think it will completely boost weston when they get ILS Lights, It's going to expand the whole airport, The NFC Can do night instruction flights. But then there's the issue of the residents around weston, would they agree to have planes buzzing around there houses at night, would You?
Every time the Beech 18 flew in weston there was alot of angry residents calling up afterwards!

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Post by Lionel Hutz »

ILS is really the technology of the past.

WAAS is what should be implemented in this country, then all runways could have ILS like approaches.

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An ILS approach is the easiest and safest kind of approach. Even for a VFR pilot, following the ILS needles at night is a guarantee you won't hit anything unseen on your way down to the runway. However, only a little more than 700 airports in the United States have a traditional instrument landing system.

"But with WAAS-certified avionics, you could most likely fly an ILS-like approach into your airport today, even if it's one of the 4,400 general aviation airports without an ILS," said AOPA President Phil Boyer.

"If your airport has a straight-in GPS approach, it probably has vertical guidance built in to the WAAS database," Boyer. "You can fly this 'pseudo' glideslope just like an ILS, with advisory vertical guidance to the visual descent point or the missed approach point."

AOPA has been pushing for WAAS ? the wide area augmentation system ? for almost a decade. This year, AOPA successfully lobbied Congress for full funding ? some $100 million ? for continued WAAS development and operations. The association also obtained a congressional directive to FAA to develop more WAAS approaches to general aviation airports.

But there are already literally thousands of approaches that can be flown like an ILS right now.

The WAAS system improves the accuracy, availability, reliability, and integrity of the GPS signal. GPS-WAAS can be used as the sole means of navigation in all flight phases, including vertical guidance on most nonprecision GPS instrument approaches. Additionally, a brand-new type of approach, the LPV instrument approach, provides minimums rivaling traditional ILS systems without the $1.5 million-plus costs of an ILS installation.

The FAA certified WAAS for instrument flight in July 2003 (see "GPS-WAAS commissioned ? new future for ILS-like approaches to airports everywhere").

The first receiver certified to take full advantage of the WAAS signal with vertical guidance is the Garmin GNS480 (or Apollo CNX80 with the version 2.0 upgrade). Garmin announced that milestone at AOPA Expo in October 2004, and the company expects to have WAAS upgrades for its GSN430/530 and G1000 in 2005.

Chelton Flight Systems' FlightLogic EFIS (electronic flight information system) is currently capable of flying approaches to LNAV/VNAV minimums, using baro VNAV with the corresponding very cold temperature limitations. The FreeFlight GPS used by the EFIS will be LPV-capable by summer 2005.

Honeywell has developed a WAAS "engine" and plans its first delivery of WAAS-capable equipment in the Apex EFIS next year. Other Honeywell Bendix/King products will get WAAS shortly thereafter.

Numerous handheld GPS receivers can also receive the more accurate WAAS signal, but handhelds may not be used for navigation in instrument conditions.

"I've been involved in this WAAS project for over nine years, and there were many times Congress wanted to kill it," AOPA President Phil Boyer said during a press conference at AOPA Expo. "About four years ago, AOPA brought the industry and FAA together in one room and said, 'Let's not let anybody out of here until we can go to Congress with an honest answer ? will it work and how much will it cost?'"

The answer was, yes, it will work. The technical difficulties of improving the GPS signal proved greater than originally thought, particularly coupled with an FAA demand that the system be more accurate and reliable than existing VORs and ILSs. It took longer to build, and it will cost more than early estimates ? a total of about $3 billion over 25 years.

"This is the culmination of phase one," Boyer said, "and the benefits for the single pilot hand-flying IFR are tremendous. There's nothing better than following two rock-solid needles like an ILS, rather than a wiggly VOR needle or an ADF.

"That also means you can fly every approach the same way, just like an ILS," said Boyer. "That's a tremendous workload reduction, not to mention the safety benefit. Because you can standardize your approach procedures, there is less likelihood of making a mistake."

And there are thousands of these approaches you can fly today with the right equipment.

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From what I understand all it requires is a ground based transmitter to enhance the GPS signal. One transmitter should be enough for all of Ireland provided it is centrally located to cover the greatest area.

The US have spent all the money developing this. no huge outlay of spondulicks would be required by the IAA.

then all that is required is for the approaches to be established.

We will not see it for many years, It will only come when the European GPS system is up and running.

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Post by Cosmic »

We discussed this before.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/vi ... 1c66974da0



would they agree to have planes buzzing around there houses at night, would You?


No I don't have to as I didn't buy a house 150m from the threshold of a runway, and I hope to goodness if I did I would have the cop on to realise that I moved in beside an aiport and NOT vice versa.


Every time the Beech 18 flew in weston there was alot of angry residents calling up afterwards!


I was in the Tower at Weston for a visit to see what goes on and have a chat with the Controller. An MU2 that lives there from time to time had to hold short to wait for IFR traffic inbound. The controller could not release the MU2 until the other traffic landed. It wasn't an unreasonable wait, certainly not more than 2-3 minutes. As soon as it lined up the phone rang. One of the neighbours outraged at what the smell was, where was the fuel spill? They were talking about the fumes from the engines. Apparently all the windows in the house had to be opened. The Controller was extremely patient and explained the ins and outs of the situation, I was very impressed witht the time he took to try and pacify the caller. The caller went on and on about it. I know what I would have said. Secon word off!

So it can't be said they don't try.

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Post by OnTheNumbers »

They have played the media, especially thr Gutter Press, beautifully. I would imagine someone with PR training is involved.


What is wrong with these Morons?


A piece of professional PR advice, don't refer to your publics as "morons". This is a public forum and is the type of resource that journalists use to research opinion.

David

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Post by C152 »

You will proably find the phone calls from residents are planned as part of a campaign and are recorded to be used in possible legal action :roll:

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Post by Lionel Hutz »

I recall when living in Southern California, after El Toro MCAS was vacated by the marines, the airlines conducted a test of a number of aircraft types at the field for noise and disturbance to the surrounding communities. They published the times when the various aircraft would be arriving and departing and set up monitoring stations all around, they also set up a complaint line for the local residents.

As always with aviation the weather played its part and the southern California marine layer rolled in in the afternoon, not normally a problem but because the marines were gone from the field it was VFR only so the last flight of the day got cancelled.

It just so happened that that aircraft was a United airlines 747-400 with a load of sandbags aboard to simulate passangers. It never left LAX.

Guess which aircraft got the most complaints about noise.

Those 747's are noisy beasts you can hear them from 70 miles away while they are sitting on the ground with their engines off apparently.

Nimbys are everywhere.

You cannot buy a house next to the sewerage works and sometime later complain about the smell.

Cosmic
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Post by Cosmic »

A piece of professional PR advice, don't refer to your publics as "morons". This is a public forum and is the type of resource that journalists use to research opinion.


I didn't say I was the one getting PR advice! :wink:

They are certainly not MY public either...

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