General Aviation Safety Council

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General Aviation Safety Council

Post by mark »

Hi guys,

As many of the regular readers of FlyingInIreland will be aware of, we have published several articles recently discussing the merits and drawbacks of the proposed new General Aviation Safety Council. We are happy to announce that progress on the issue has been rapid a number of public meetings are being organised around the country in May. This will give members of the public a chance to discuss the remit, make-up and terms of reference of the new council.

An article has been written about this process but due to time constraints we were unable to publish it in this months issue (subscribers received it as an insert). In order to support this initiative we are making this article available free to everyone to download from our website. Just CLICK HERE to read the article. Please foward it to as many people as possible to get the word out about the upcoming public meetings.

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Mark Dwyer
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by mark »

Hi guys,

Here is the list of venues for the GASCI meetings. The first meeting takes place TOMORROW. I'd like to encourage as many people as possible to make it to at least one meeting, this council may shape the future of General Aviation in Ireland in the years to come, make sure you have your say. Everybody is welcome regardless of experience or flying discipline.

10th May - The Bridge House Hotel Tullamore
13th May - The River Lee Hotel Cork
17th May - Pilot Training College Waterford
20th May - Mount Errigal Hotel Letterkenny
24th May - TBC (Dublin Area)
27th May - Carlton Hotel Galway

Regards,
Mark
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Mark Dwyer
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Higgie »

Hi ALL
Tuesday 17th of May. Pilot Training college Waterford 8pm
Friday 20th of May. Mount Errigal Hotel Letterkenny.
Dublin 24th of May
Galway 27th of May

Have your say on The Safety Council.
You will get to have an input into future IAA policy.

Its now or never.
Higgie

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Jim »

Hi,
Perhaps you can inform us what is the level of attendance and interest as there has already been 2 Meetings.

Most of the dates are rather awkward for me as they clash with other meetings etc. but the Letterkenny one has a slim chance and the Dublin one is probably my best bet.

Jim
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Oisin »

Sadly only about 15 max turned up in Cork. Good presentation and initiative worthy of support.
Oisin

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by mark »

There were about 35-40 in Tullamore last Tuesday night.
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Jim »

I sort of expected that situation to materialize.

A Friday Evening we found, is a rather bad time to organize any Meeting.
(Too many working week wind downs/WE preparations taking place.)

While we can only recommend that EVERYONE should attend one of these, people will unfortunately, only attend if it does not interfere with their regular lifestyle.
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by jonkil »

Happy to report that the meeting in Letterkenny last night was well attended with different sectors of GA represented. I went to this meeting with a very sceptical outlook, sceptical from the point of view that I believe that a leopard wont shed its spots and as a client who had to deal with the IAA over the past years on issues that could have been handled efficiently, with courtesy and professionalism... unfortunately that wasn't my experience with the IAA on all counts, and I am not alone in that regard.
John Steel & Company did a very polished presentation last night, addressed the many issues that are so apparent and took quite a heated question and answer session afterwards.
The upshot ?.....
Well I do now honestly believe that the IAA have realised the errors they have instigated towards GA in general and the errors in dealings with individuals. They openly admitted their mistakes in the past, and they do not want the future to be rendered likewise, they want to pro-actively engage with GA and move forward. They were humble and apologetic for the mistakes that has been made and realise that it will take time and effort on their part to build trust with the GA community, this will be the most difficult challenge the IAA will face and how they overcome it is a matter for discussion and I for one really don't have answers on that score. The fact that they are running these meetings, admitting mistakes, looking for input is at least a beacon of hope for the future. Some simple matters that can be simply resolved for the betterment of the GA community can be implemented immediately by the IAA, this should be perused by them as a matter of urgency and it would go some way to foster a closer working relationship and demonstrate that they are sincere in their endeavours.
So, where will it lead?... I really don't know, last night I arrived at the meeting full of contempt for the IAA, I treated them like "mushrooms", kept them in the dark and fed them full of s**t. Although an Irish citizen myself, a resident in Donegal, with my own airfield, I don't fly here and curtail all my dealings to the UK CAA and operate in UK airspace, I don't liaise with the IAA and keep away from them. This is all because of my experience and dealings I have had with them in the PAST, lets hope it remains in the past. The IAA's mentality of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut must go, in any case there has been a few nuts with thicker husks than they could crack in recent times !
Last nights meeting in Letterkenny has left me much more open minded about the IAA, the fact they listened, took on board what was said.... and they did really take on board many points, listened to some very tough criticism, asked for ideas from the floor and said sorry for the past tells me something good just may happen.
As only one person I know I don't count in the scheme of things with the IAA, however as a sceptic arriving at the meeting to someone who left the meeting more than willing to run with the IAA on this very pro-active initiative says something in what they propose. The road ahead they must walk will be difficult, building trust and mutual respect with each other will take time, but we all must take the first step. I for one will put the first toe forward and begin the journey with them because for once I don't doubt the sincerity of their actions. Time will be the judge on their promises, especially for Cpt Steel, if they don't deliver then the history between GA and the IAA will remain to be written in mistrust as it has been for ages and foster an even more difficult working relationship between "them & us".
May I take the opportunity to thank Cpt John Steel, Cpt John Murray, Declan Fitspatrick and Colm Hanivan for hosting the meeting, for being so upfront and honest about the shortcomings within the IAA and for offering an avenue to progress things in the future.

Jon Kilpatrick

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround »

Nice write up Jon
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Higgie »

Hi All
As Jon said, an excellent meeting with a full and frank discussion of the various problems facing the G.A community.
Next meeting is tomorrow night,
Tue 24th May at 8 pm in Weston
Then Fri 27th May Carlton Hotel Galway at 8pm.
More than likely we will have one more in Coonagh.
Be represented, be there
Padraig

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by andrewbutler »

There was a pretty sorry turn out in Galway, however, the meeting was positive and the discussions were open, frank and amicable. Maybe I've had my head in the sand a bit, but I learned at this meeting from Martin Purcell (Head of Licensing at the IAA) that the new SEP PPL(A) EASA license that my JAR license will become next April, won't entitle me to fly my newly built SEP VANS RV7 EI-EEO, as it is a non EASA aircraft. According to the IAA, the only solution is for them to issue a national license as well. This national license will only be valid in Ireland and hours flying my RV won't count against my EASA license and vice versa.

The CAA have come up a solution (though the issue of hours is not mentioned). A microlight pilot at the meeting pointed this out to Martin, but he did not seem aware of it. Anyhow, here is the link to the relevant document:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/srg_l&ts_ ... 011_v2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See quote here:
"1.5 The CAA intends to have the Air Navigation Order amended so that EASA licenses with the appropriate class ratings will be valid for non-EASA aircraft within those classes; thereby avoiding the need for the holder and EASA PPL(A) with SEP rating to also hold a national license in order to fly an amateur-built aeroplane or a Tigermoth, for example. (Note that the Air Navigation Order cannot make a national license valid for the piloting of an EASA aircraft)."

See also the note at the end of section 4.2.

It sounds like a simple solution to the problem. The only issue then would be how to use Annex 2 hours to revalidate the EASA license. I have sent this to Martin as he and others from the IAA are meeting with the CAA in the coming weeks. For the sake of sanity, the IAA should be lobied to do what they can to proactivley introduce smart solutions like this to these very real problems. If they are serious about changing their ways with regards the GA community in Ireland, then surely this is one way to show it.

Regards,

Andrew Butler
VANs RV7 EI-EEO
Galway, Ireland.

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by jonkil »

Good reading Andrew.
For us who have the UK NPPL(m) it is time to do the 6 hr conversion to attain the A rating.
This will be transferable to the EASA licence for A class..... happy days.
I still have the Irish PPL with a microlight rating, who knows what will happen to it when EASA rules.

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GASCI meeting Tue 7 June 8pm Coonagh Clubhouse

Post by hum »

All welcome! Just to the west of Limerick.

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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by Jim »

Good input from a couple of those who attended these meetings.
Would love to hear more genuine views from attendees, on either side of the issues.

The meetings are nearing an end and i have been unavailable for any of them, and will be out of the Country for the one in Coonagh too!
I do have a lot of input but, looks like it may have to be submitted in the "Comment" which AOPA has for the IAA.
Our Members have submitted rather strong views for the Authorities.

We can not stress too strongly the importance of the establishment of a GASC in Ireland.
The UK has GASCo and it works very well, because there is an equal level within its membership.
If Ireland got half of what they have it would be great, is it possible? You Decide!

This is about YOU! the General Aviator, This is YOU'RE chance to make a genuine difference, TAKE IT!
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Re: General Aviation Safety Council

Post by mark »

Hi guys,

Two more upcoming GASCI meetings:

Tuesday June 7th, 8PM at Connagh Airfield, Limerick
Thursday June 9th, 8PM at the Galway Flying Club, Galway Airport.

Again, please make every effort to attend if you can. This is the future of your sport.

Regards,
Mark
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