Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

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hum
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Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by hum » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:43 pm

Trying to get some notes together for PPL air law candidates ...

Am I missing something, or do we currently have 2 different definitions for 'Night' in Irish Air Law?

In the Personnel Licensing SI (333 of 2000):

“night” means-

(a) in or over the State-

(i) during the period of summer time - the time between one hour
after sunset and one hour before sunrise,

(ii) during the remainder of the year - the time between half-an hour
after sunset and half-an-hour before sunrise;



whereas in the Rules of the Air SI (72 of 2004)

. In or over the State, “night” shall be deemed to be, during the
period beginning on the 1st day of April, and ending on the 30th day of September, the
time between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise, and during the
remainder of the year, the time between sunset and sunrise, and for the purpose of this
definition sunset shall be determined at surface level


So, on the face of it for example, one flies 45 min after sunset in summer, one can legally do so from a licensing point of view without a night rating, but is deemed to be 'flying by night' according to the rules of the air.... :?:

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by Jim » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:48 pm

Gerry,
It is indeed a conflict betwen SI and Rules.
May i ask you to please log that issue? http://www.aopaireland.com/issuelog.html

AOPA has requested a review and update of the IAA regs. on 3 different occasions.
Each time we were informed we must wait for the new EASA regs. to come into effect first!
Defending the rights of GA in Ireland.
http://www.aopa.ie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by Rudy » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Hum,
There's no conflict. It depends on the definition of night that is used. Evening Civil Twilight, Sunrise/Sunset or whatever is chosen by the Authority.The FAR's have at least 2 definitions as well. FAR 61.57(b) uses an hour before sunrise to an hour after sunset for currency. FAR 1.1 states SS to SR.
JAR says " the period between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, or such other period between sunset and sunrise as may be prescribed by the appropriate authority"
If you are teaching PPL Air Law with reference to Navigation then the "Rules of the Air" apply and as the IAA have prescribed the I/2 hour either side option during the summer and SS/SR in winter that's it.
Simple.
Rudy

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by hum » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 am

Thanks for that Rudy, I don't agree there is no conflict since as far as I can see both SI's are IAA documents laying down Irish Air Law, but I agree that the Rules of the air one is most sensible (one would need NVGs well before an hour after sunset in the winter)

What trivia we get up to sometimes - need to get out more :lol:
Hum NVGs.jpg
Night VFR Kit
Hum NVGs.jpg (31.99 KiB) Viewed 2178 times

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by bumitch » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:50 pm

Don't have the time or motivation to go delving into this quagmire, but without guarantee of verification, further instances of discrepancies/contradictions may well be found in the areas of

- documentation required to be carried on board
- equipment and requirements for flight over water
- fuel planning and requirements.

A more fundamental problem seems to be which is the priority set of regs - IAA or JAA? And if it is JAA, do the Air Law exams (and common understanding) reflect this?

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by MHRCRO » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:19 am

I just recall that when this "Night" conflict between Rules of Air v Licensing was raised with IAA not long after initial publicationthe answer was;

"It doesn't really matter because when Sean Lemass introduced ICAO to Irish law in the Forties it was done in a way that ensured that Convention and all Annexes have for ever since been automatically incorporated into our corpus of law and regulation"

There's a new one for you

Maurice

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Re: Conflict in definition of 'Night' in SIs?

Post by MHRCRO » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:48 am

For HUM

Another one you might like to look at is the Airworthiness Order for how it tells, or doesn't tell, whether it is "Flight Time" or "Time in Service" that ought to be entered in an aircraft and engine logbools

Maurice

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