More charges on the way?
  • nevergiveup
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    More charges on the way?

    by nevergiveup » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:31 am

    Anyone know what Irish airports are included?

    http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59741
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    Jim
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    by Jim » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:45 pm

    We believe there are a total of 7 Irish Airports included on the list.
    Dublin, Shannon, Cork, Waterford, Knock, Galway and Weston.

    This is only one of the 2 major contentions that we are opposing at the moment.
    The 2nd is the abolition of the IMC Rating.
  • captain slow
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    by captain slow » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:44 pm

    Jim wrote:We believe there are a total of 7 Irish Airports included on the list.
    Dublin, Shannon, Cork, Waterford, Knock, Galway and Weston.

    This is only one of the 2 major contentions that we are opposing at the moment.
    The 2nd is the abolition of the IMC Rating.
    There is no IMC rating in Ireland so how can you oppose its abolition? Unless of course you mean the UK??
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    Jim
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    by Jim » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:59 am

    Obviously, You do not realize how many Irish Pilots are operating on a UK License! Many of those have an IMC Rating on it.
    We know that it is not recognized in Ireland and Older Pilots know why this is so. (Boring old argument again, before IAA!)

    31% of AOPA Ireland members hold a UK License and this is why we have been asked by IAOPA to lend support against its proposed abolition.

    This basic 15 hour course has saved many lives during its existance and taught great skills to many a pilot, myself included.
    Defending the rights of GA in Ireland.
    http://www.aopa.ie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  • captain slow
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    by captain slow » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:45 pm

    This basic 15 hour course has saved many lives during its existance and taught great skills to many a pilot, myself included
    Fair enough Jim and its admirable that you are supporting pilots in another country.
    31% of AOPA Ireland members hold a UK License and this is why we have been asked by IAOPA to lend support against its proposed abolition
    Obviously, You do not realize how many Irish Pilots are operating on a UK License! Many of those have an IMC Rating on it.
    Actually i do know how many Irish pilots operate with a Uk licence,indeed i have been one myself before i transferred it over to my country of normal resisdence. The advent of the florida flight schools means a very large number of Irish pilots (ppl's and cpl's) have UK issued licences.

    Having said that even if the said pilots have a IMC rating on their Uk licence they can't use it here at all or indeed anywhere else in europe as only the Uk recognise it.
    There is more i could say on this but i wont but suffice to say that anyone thinking of flying IMC here on their Uk IMC rating is asking for big trouble-uk licence or not.

    However as i said before, supporting your colleagues abroad is to be applauded but i fail to see how objecting to the removal of the UK IMC rating has any relevance to irish flying.??

    PS Keep up the good work
  • willo
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    by willo » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:09 am

    Hi Jim

    Any chance of an update on AOPA-Ireland.

    How many members.
    Are there a members meeting, when & where are they held
    Who is on the current committee
    On your website it says: "Registered in Ireland No.384017" . Company Number 384017 is a company called Trim Entertainment Limited. Is this the name of the company, with AOPA as a business name?
    IAOPA website still showing the "other" AOPA-Ireland as the recognised body. When will this be clarified?
    Regarding this charge, do you have full list of 215 airports involved?
    AS it is due to commence on Jan 1st, can you advise propals from each of seven Irish identified airports. Will they be charging, and if so, how much?
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    by willo » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:51 am

    Further to last post, I note Business Reg No 384017 is AOPA Ireland.

    Your website should show the full organisational details, as this is only a Trading Name. I blieve that this is legally required under a recent EU directive.

    It would appear not to be a company as the only AOPA showing under Limited Companies is Reg no 472158, being the "other" AOPA Ireland.
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    by jollyrog » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:31 am

    Having said that even if the said pilots have a IMC rating on their Uk licence they can't use it here at all
    Not entirely true. A UK PPL holder can't fly VFR "on top" in Ireland, as UK licences carry the restriction of "in sight of the surface".

    This restriction is removed on an IMC holder's licence. Thus, a privelege that Irish licence holders have as standard requires the IMC rating on a UK licence.
  • captain slow
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    by captain slow » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:53 pm

    Not entirely true. A UK PPL holder can't fly VFR "on top" in Ireland, as UK licences carry the restriction of "in sight of the surface".

    This restriction is removed on an IMC holder's licence. Thus, a privelege that Irish licence holders have as standard requires the IMC rating on a UK licence.
    Granted the IMC rating removes condition of having to stay in sight of the surface at all times On a UK licence......but while operating/flying in the UK.

    To use the IMC rating to absolve a UK ppl from that restriction while flying in Ireland doesnt wash as Ireland along with all the other JAA/Easa states dont recognise the IMC rating. In efffect it doesnt exist outside of the UK.

    While flying out of sight of the surface is one of the priveliges of the IMC it also allows the flyer much more options such as taking off below vfr minimas and executing a instruement let down and flying effectively IFR outside of class A but all this only applies to the UK.

    I still say that any UK ppl using their IMC here is asking for big trouble. I also can only assume also that Aopa Ireland or whatever their correct title is, are supporting the IMC retention only as a favour to their Uk neighbours as its a dud point here.??
  • jollyrog
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    by jollyrog » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:49 am

    Granted the IMC rating removes condition of having to stay in sight of the surface at all times On a UK licence......but while operating/flying in the UK.

    To use the IMC rating to absolve a UK ppl from that restriction while flying in Ireland doesnt wash as Ireland along with all the other JAA/Easa states dont recognise the IMC rating. In efffect it doesnt exist outside of the UK.
    I have to disagree. It's a JAA licence with JAA privileges, which allows VFR "on top". The UK CAA see fit to add an "in sight of the surface" restriction, which they further choose to remove if the holder obtains an IMCr. Removal of the restriction isn't country specific - the words are just removed from the page and further geographical restrictions are not imposed.

    Everything else you say is absolutely correct. Flying in cloud and instrument approaches are for UK airspace only.
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    by captain slow » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 am

    I shall defer to your knowledge of the uk system as I haven't been in for for a good few years now. On a side note it will be Interesting to see easa new ifr lite rating hopefully more closely based on the FAA IR making it within reach of most ppl's
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    Jim
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    by Jim » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:59 am

    Firstly, let me apologize for my absence and delays with answers. (Overseas)

    @Captain slow
    However as i said before, supporting your colleagues abroad is to be applauded but i fail to see how objecting to the removal of the UK IMC rating has any relevance to irish flying.??
    AOPA is an International Association and supports GA issues in many countries.
    And if CAA licenses are used here then it does have relevance here.

    In 1985 a UK CAA IMC Rated pilot, (Presently one of our Members) who had an issue with the then Department, asked about his rating. He still has the letter stating…
    “a UK CAA, Private OR Commercial Pilots Licence is accepted and recognized by the state, However there are certain additions granted to the holder by the CAA which are not recognized by the state but are accepted”
    Try reading into that one then!

    Jollyrog has explained it Spot On!
    willo wrote:Hi Jim

    Any chance of an update on AOPA-Ireland.

    Cetainly, but not here as it is way off issue! as were your other questions.
    Regarding this charge, do you have full list of 215 airports involved?
    AS it is due to commence on Jan 1st, can you advise propals from each of seven Irish identified airports. Will they be charging, and if so, how much?
    It is being INTRODUCED on 1st January not implemented.
    More consultation has to take place.
    Our Members will be the first to be notified of the implementation and amounts (if any) as i am sure you understand.
    Defending the rights of GA in Ireland.
    http://www.aopa.ie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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    by cubpilot » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:30 am

    Have GA movements into Galway slumped after they introduced nav charges? if they have and the statistics are available i would think that would be useful to present to the other airports to show that pilots vote with thier wings and fly to cheaper destinations.
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    Jim
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    by Jim » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:26 am

    I am sure Galway had a reduced input.
    Whether they admit it or not is immaterial.

    Some of the larger airports see this a their answer to the "unwanted" GA fraternity, as they have far greater fees from the commercials.
    Defending the rights of GA in Ireland.
    http://www.aopa.ie" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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