Mayday heard on Sunday
  • AndyMax
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    Mayday heard on Sunday

    by AndyMax » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:47 am

    Heard a Mayday call on 126.25 on Sunday 11th by an aircraft out over Enfield.

    ATC asked for his status and he said "standby". No other radio call was heard after that.

    Anybody know anything about this?
  • lorax
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    by lorax » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:07 pm

    He sucessfully diverted into EICL, I understand that he had decended below a level at which comms with dublin was possible so the parachute aircraft relayed with dublin for him.
    An engine failure/rough running which he managed to restart and nurse over to clonbullogue
  • AndyMax
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    by AndyMax » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:27 pm

    Good to hear, thanks
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:17 pm

    M am always at least mildly astonished at the gay abandon with which the "Mayday" call is often linked with the occurrence of a forced landing

    My book tells me that :

    Distress (Mayday) is a condition of being threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring immediate assistance

    Urgency (PAN) is a condition concerning the safety of an aircraft or other vehicle, or of some person on board or within sight, but does not require immediate assistance

    Ifwe don't have reasonable cofidence that w can bring an SEP down safely without power - over most terrain at least - should we be flying them?

    Murice
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:53 pm

    Hello again Mr Crow - we haven't crossed tendrils for a good while!

    This is one that could go on for ever!

    My concern here is very basic : a MAYDAY call, as I understand it, mandates the scrambling of very expensive SAR equipment and I find it very difficult to justify this as an opening gambit for each and every (let us say) engine-stop – when statistically the proportion leading to serious injury is small – I have watched as I can since 1956

    It is a pilot’s responsibility to determine the ‘emergency’ content of his plight and I would be unhappy about instructors giving guidance to the effect of ‘always Mayday’

    I think I would be very content to have a 17-yo / 20 hr student guiding me back to earth after engine failure – he/she may never again do it as well as then

    As I am now only allowed to instruct outside JARland, perhaps you might be able to fill me in on a couple of things

    This use of MAYDAY now fairly universal : is there somewhere it is mandated/recommended?

    Ours used to be the only known State not permitting forced landing practice down to the flare - is this still the case? (Remember that C150 2-instructor fatal at Rathmolyon)

    Best cheer

    Maurice
  • mr crow
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    by mr crow » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:31 pm

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    Last edited by mr crow on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • ceatach
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    by ceatach » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:36 pm

    MCRO wrote:My concern here is very basic : a MAYDAY call, as I understand it, mandates the scrambling of very expensive SAR equipment and I find it very difficult to justify this as an opening gambit for each and every (let us say) engine-stop – when statistically the proportion leading to serious injury is small – I have watched as I can since 1956

    It is a pilot’s responsibility to determine the ‘emergency’ content of his plight and I would be unhappy about instructors giving guidance to the effect of ‘always Mayday’
    For private flying, almost all single engine aircraft that lost power here in Ireland over the last 10-15 years resulted in significant damage to the aircraft. In half of these events, someone was injured or killed.
    These events only happen on average of once a year here. This is not the area in which you are going to save a lot of money for the country.

    For me, I think it is negligent not to call a mayday.
  • KeithT
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    by KeithT » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:27 pm

    I am only a low hour pilot but you can rest assured if the engine on my plane stops and a forced landing is imminent a Mayday call will most certainly be made.

    If I'm going down along with my passengers and there is a risk to us on the forced landing, which there is on any forced landing, not to mention the risk to people on the ground I can't understand how anyone could use any call less than a Mayday.

    One thing I was always taught during my training...Use every means available to you, be it a VOR to aid your spatial awareness during a standard navex or a distress call when the engine gives up.
  • bumitch
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    by bumitch » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:50 pm

    I had the somewhat dubious pleasure of doing a PFL down to about 10ft into a rural countryside field in another country. The one thing this really imprinted was just how fast you are going (and therefore just how much energy you are going to have to lose on contract with the ground) even when flying at the mandated glide speed. On this basis alone, I would think that all forced landings into non runway grade terrain should be Mayday - I would have bet that that the aircraft undercarriage would likely collapse in the scenario above.
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:44 pm

    For private flying, almost all single engine aircraft that lost power here in Ireland over the last 10-15 years resulted in significant damage to the aircraft. In half of these events, someone was injured or killed.
    I think I remember you as a very methodic Postman, Ceatach - but I wonder

    Possibly your statistical conclusion is based just on reported forced landings

    You know, if I were a low-time PPL and had disabled myself for life by poorly executing a forced landing, I would, if I had not been properly trained and practised AGAIN AND AGAIN the critical final 500 ft of the forced landing situation, sue my instructor for really gross negligence

    It is possible, of course, that I am wrong in stating that the initial MAYDAY call indicating possibilility of crash mandates a scramble - but I believe so

    Maurice
  • StrikeCommand
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    by StrikeCommand » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:47 pm

    The old and often quoted maxim "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" might apply. More important to concentrate on keeping the a/c flying - i.e. maintaining a safe margin above the stall speed, not exceeding the critical angle of attack, deciding when to use flaps, etc (having spotted a suitable landing surface - not necessarily a field) - and talking on the radio is secondary. The nuances of Mayday v Pan-Pan etc are of no use if the flying bit is not successful. At least by using Mayday/ Pan it makes everyone else on the frequency realise that the call they have on the tip of their tongue is possibly not important and they will hopefully not clutter up the channel. Also by making that emergency call, that aviator may contribute to the survival chances of himself and others on board, if things go wrong. By giving a position, the emergency services will have a better idea of where to look and be able to get any casualties to hospital etc more quickly. As another chap alluded to, finding a field is easier said than done. Just look at the poor choice available when next you fly over somewhere like Ballinamore, Co.Leitrim - the fields in this area are no bigger than a tennis court!
  • mr crow
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    by mr crow » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:17 am

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    Last edited by mr crow on Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Dogbiscuit
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    by Dogbiscuit » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:42 am

    "My concern here is very basic : a MAYDAY call, as I understand it, mandates the scrambling of very expensive SAR equipment and I find it very difficult to justify this as an opening gambit for each and every (let us say) engine-stop "

    Don't let the cost concern stop you from calling out "Mayday", the Irish SAR units, usually fly at least once per day, per shift, so a callout for a genuine Mayday won't make much difference to the overall costs.
  • jollyrog
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    by jollyrog » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:50 am

    One could execute a perfect forced landing to the point of touching down, then end up in an inverted fireball after the nosewheel has gone down the rabbit hole you couldn't see from 2,000 feet when picking the field.

    I'll call MAYDAY and cancel it from the ground, once the aircraft isn't on fire, I'm out and the risk of serious injury/death is no longer present.
  • jonkil
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    by jonkil » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:42 pm

    jollyrog wrote: I'll call MAYDAY and cancel it from the ground, once the aircraft isn't on fire, I'm out and the risk of serious injury/death is no longer present.
    I'm with you on that one, Dead Hero or Living coward !!
    Easily cancelled on phone if not required, brings me to another issue,
    How many of you have telephone numbers for Shannon/Dublin/Aldrogrove/Scottish/London stored on your phone...... very very useful.

    Jon

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