Sharing Seats/Costs
  • Pearse1983
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    Sharing Seats/Costs

    by Pearse1983 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:18 am

    Folks, Id be very interested to know what the current guidelines are for sharing seats (and ultimately costs) in Ireland.
    I took a browse through the FAQs over at the IAA website http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?&1n=93&2n=1 ... =421&a=574 but have not been able to come up with anything strictly related to this topic. I know it was discussed briefly on these forums about two years ago and the general consensus was sharing costs/seats between pilots, without making a profit, does not fall under the remit of your PPL.

    Is this still the case? :?:
  • Rudy
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    by Rudy » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:45 pm

    Never was the case in Ireland Pearse1983. It was acceptable in the UK and so we all read about it in Pilot etc. but cost sharing was never legal here.
    The prohibition is in now covered by JAR's.
    JAR-FCL Section 1 Subpart C-Private Pilots Licence 1.110 (a) Privileges refers.
    Rudy
    Rudy
  • Pearse1983
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    by Pearse1983 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:30 pm

    Thanks for the reply Rudy - but just clarify it is my understanding that such practices are still permitted in UK?
    Rudy wrote:...It was acceptable in the UK...
  • ilovebeatups
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    by ilovebeatups » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:34 pm

    ..
    Last edited by ilovebeatups on Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:46 am

    Article 160 of the UK Air Navigation Order is alive and well : viz -

    Public transport and aerial work - exceptions - cost sharing

    160 (1) Subject to paragraph (4), a flight shall be deemed to be a private flight if the only
    valuable consideration given or promised in respect of the flight or the purpose of the
    flight falls within paragraph (2) and the criteria in paragraph (3) are satisfied.
    30 March 2007
    CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
    Section 1 Part 14 Page 32
    (2) Valuable consideration falls within this paragraph if it is:
    (a) valuable consideration specified in article 157(3)(c);
    (b) in the case of an aircraft owned in accordance with article 162(2), valuable
    consideration which falls within article 162(3); or
    (c) is a contribution to the direct costs of the flight otherwise payable by the pilot in
    command;
    or falls within any two or all three sub-paragraphs.
    (3) The criteria in this paragraph are satisfied if:
    (a) no more than 4 persons (including the pilot) are carried;
    (b) the proportion which the contribution referred to in paragraph 2(c) bears to the
    direct costs shall not exceed the proportion which the number of persons carried
    on the flight (excluding the pilot) bears to the number of persons carried
    (including the pilot);
    (c) no information shall have been published or advertised prior to the
    commencement of the flight other than, in the case of an aircraft operated by a
    flying club, advertising wholly within the premises of such a flying club in which
    case all the persons carried on such a flight who are aged 18 years or over shall
    be members of that flying club; and
    (d) no person acting as a pilot shall be employed as a pilot by, or be a party to a
    contract for the provision of services as a pilot with, the operator of the aircraft
    which is being flown.
    (4) If valuable consideration specified in article 157(3)(c) is given or promised, the flight
    shall for the purposes of Part 3 of this Order (other than articles 19(2) and 20(2)) be
    deemed to be for the purpose of public transport.

    Maurice
  • Biggles
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    by Biggles » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:57 pm

    JAR–FCL 1.110 Privileges and conditions "(a) Privileges. Subject to any other
    conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act, but not for remuneration, as pilot-in-command or co-pilot of any aeroplane engaged in non-revenue flights."

    How can this be interpreted as two licenced friends cannot share the costs of a pleasure flight. I would interpret the use of the terms 'remuneration', and 'non-revenue flights', to mean 'to be paid for', and 'not for profit', which is different from sharing the cost of.
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:10 pm

    Unfortunately the book I work from says

    Remuneration = (in alphabetical order) compensation, earnings, emolument, fee, incoe, indemnity, pay payment, profit, recompense, reimbursement, reparation, repayment, retainer, return, reward, salary,stipend, wages

    Two licensed persons can, of course, share he cost of a flight - if they share command

    Maurice
  • Nanolight
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    by Nanolight » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:23 am

    What about: The pilot pays for the flying and then he charges his non-pilot mate a hundred quid or so for the lift home from the airfield?
    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • michael747
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    by michael747 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:12 am

    Nanolight wrote:What about: The pilot pays for the flying and then he charges his non-pilot mate a hundred quid or so for the lift home from the airfield?
    Just once you have a PSV licence HAHA :lol:
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • MCRO
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    by MCRO » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:48 am

    A perfect defence - if the Court agrees your evidence is a true and fair account of the situation

    Mauice

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