[ceatach]

Hi all. Just want to bring the following to your attention. This effort is being undertaken by a group called 'universal flight group'.

http://www.aopaireland.com


regards.

[Papa8]

There is also a brief note on PPRUNE too. Corny joke about it not being a Mayday call.

There are however, many splinter groups of aviators within Ireland. The majority of these have visions of Authority and Leadership. But they lack the main ingredients.

The above quote from their site vexes me also. An organisation that is insulting all those who have already joined so-called 'splinter' groups does not suggest to me that they are coming from an altogether mature standpoint to begin with.

The NMAI (of which I am not a member) has been acknowledged publicly by the IAA as easily the fastest growing sector of private aviation and I have felt welcome as a non-microlight pilot when attending events they have organised. Nothing in my experience so far suggests that they are lacking any ingredients or have visions of authority.

[damienair]

Thank you Papa8,

The NMAI is the association which looks after the interests and Airworthiness of Microlight Pilots in Ireland. The NMAI of which I am currently Treasurer are affiliated with the FAI through the National Aero Club of Ireland as well as other Aviation bodies throughout Europe. We have representation at all EASA meetings. Currently we have 120 paid up members in the association. We are a very active and commited association of purely voluntary interest. Our needs are completely different to the needs of Group A and larger aircraft. Microlighting is all about safe, fun, inexpensive aviation. It is important to keep costs and over regulation to a minimum. It is well accepted that this is the fastest growing sector of aviation, because of it's ownership and operating costs.

The NMAI would not be a splinter group of any other larger body, we will always have to exist as a seperate entity, as our needs are very different.

However, we are not exclusive to Microlights and all our organised events such as Flyins and Safety evenings are open to all. We are all interested in Aviation and I am facinated with anything which flys. The Aviation community in Ireland is a small and close knit one, I have met so many great people in my few years and made life long friends. Ireland is a fantastic country to fly in and I will support any group or association which represents the needs of fellow aviators.

I wish the ''Universal Flight Group'' every success.

Damien.

[jonkil]

Did NASRAV not come into existence after the demise of AOPA Ireland the last time ? Is yet another body required ?
The secret in any organisation is to do things well, give members something back for their membership subs, and to represent them at the highest level.

[Jim]

Hi Papa8,
Our member who penned that letter for publication assures us there was absolutely NO insult intended, The remark states there are many splinter groups in Ireland who are missing vital ingredient to make them an officially recognized body. He did NOT single out the NMAI (of which you are not a member) NOR did he mention ANY other group.
Indeed, the NMAI does have Authority (They are granted permission by IAA to issue Certificates to Microlights. I personally was a member of BMAA for 11 years..

The UFG was established in 1969 and because of its nature, became a closed shop within 17 Weeks of launch. It took me personally 9 Years to gain membership. They take members of the public who showed initiative and who could not afford flying lessons, never saw a CP in their life or were building kits, with our help they are flying for many top Airlines. On their way up they got to fly Pilatus, Robins, Gyroplanes, Doves, Ansons, Microlights, DC3 and many more as time permitted.We provided them with overall experience on anything available,(Would you class this as "An altogether mature standpoint to begin with" ?)

All the Clubs, Groups, Teams and associations that applied to meet with us since our announcemet on 12th February will explain how and why we intend to implement the re-activation of AOPA in Ireland.
and as you ask so nicely, Here is a summary....
The combined total of individuals represented by constituent member groups of IAOPA is over 470,000 (Largest civil aviation group in the World)
Since the demise of AOPA in Ireland, so many bodies have attempted to re-activate it, obviously none have succeeded.
I personally know of 9 groups, do a google of the nets archives, you will find an awful lot more.
UFG have registered "AOPA Ireland" as a business name, they have also incorporated it (This is what killed it in the first place, Being Unlimited!)
They shall remain the "Owners" of the name, so no-one can ever take it from the Irish aviators again.
This COMPLETE PACKAGE.will be handed over to those who opt to signup as per our schedule on the website http://www.aopaireland.com PLUS, UFG secretary (Thats myself!) Plus the free services of our Solicitor and also our Barristor. Also that website is running on our own server, so no hosting/design/webmaster fees.
EVERYTHING, we are doing is legal and above board. We are handing the Irish Aviators the AOPA on a "Silver Platter!" Perhaps you see wrong where everyone else sees progress!!
We do hope that previous members of AOPA will join us for a fresh start, maybe apply for committee positions too!

So, Papa8, While you were entering your copy and paste from an independent site, you never thought to look for copyright notice, placing Yourself, This sites controllers, their servers owners and your ISP in a compromising position of infringement of copyright under the "Copyright and Related Rights Act 2000" BUT I GUESS NO-ONES PERFECT!!!!

@damienair

I note and acknowledge your comments, and thank you for your support.
Some members of NMAI have met and spoke to us on a "Casual" basis.
We have made it a point of acknowledging all forms of aviation.

Jim

[stovepipe]

Hi all,
I recognise the name of Jim Breslin, alright.I don't know who the rest are, or where they fly, if they fly, even.As for AOPA, from what I know of the politics of the whole AOPA saga,it all hinged around one individual's attitude, that led to AOPA's "seperation" from IAOPA.If that has been resolved, then I wish this new organisation the very best of luck.
Just one question: if you guys have been around since 1969, how come you're so unknown? Kind of pointless trying to represent GA if no-one's ever heard of you?
regards
Stovepipe

[inverted]

I'm aware that AOPA are a truly massive organisation and on a global scale have achieved great things but why do we need AOPA now, Irish avaition has got on just fine without them for the past number of years.

What would your sub to AOPA Ireland get you ?

UFG est in 1969.....I'm flying 20 years and never heard of them, have they a funny handshake or something that the general public dont know about ?

[willo]

Have to agree with inverted & stovepipe, I have never heard of UFG, and havent heard of anybody on the committee.

Can you advise what clubs you contacted, as didnt hear anythingon grapevine at either club in Abbeyshrule

On the site, it says AOPA Ireland Ltd is registered, its not currently showing on the CRO site. What is the CRO number?

how many menbers has UFG, and are they all pilots. I dont understand the jump from an unknown body to being a representative group.

Please enlighten me, as I am lost

Willo

[Jim]

@willo

You will not find UFG on the internet, in an Irish phonebook or anywhere on a public billboard either. They are registered in Switzerland, consisting of A/C owners, Pilots and business owners/directors who pump their own funding by sponsorship. It is a closed shop and membership is only by invitation. Ireland presently has 22 members. I am "acting secretary" on a temporary basis in preparation of AOPA launch. Only those who attended our meetings know whom we were in contact with. CRO Registration takes almost a month to appear on their register (We are number 6394356)
UFG is NOT and never shall be a representative body, Look in my post above

This COMPLETE PACKAGE.will be handed over to those who opt to signup as per our schedule on the website http://www.aopaireland.com PLUS, UFG secretary (Thats myself!) Plus the free services of our Solicitor and also our Barristor. Also that website is running on our own server, so no hosting/design/webmaster fees.
EVERYTHING, we are doing is legal and above board. We are handing the Irish Aviators the AOPA on a "Silver Platter!"

[Pilot]

CRO Registration takes almost a month to appear on their register (We are number 6394356)

CRO is a live database. I don't think it takes a month for data to appear.
Perhaps for a document that has been lodged, but usually for new companies it should be pretty much instant.


"6394356" is certainly not a CRO number. You have probably transcribed it inforrectly.

I hope you have more success that those that have gone before you.

In what way do you think that you can succeed where others such as "Irish Aviationrs" or "NASRAV" didn't?

P

[Jim]

God Bless the doubtors!!

Receipt Number: 3809203

The following submissions were received by the CRO

RBN1A REG. OF BUS. NAME - PARTNERSHIP,
Sub No: 6394356, No: (not yet allocated), Name: AOPA IRELAND, Received: 02-Apr-2009, Effective: 02-Apr-2009, Total Cost: 20 EUR

[stovepipe]

Hi there
Do you have to do the funny handshake, with the rolled-up trouser leg? Or is it Rotarians for Impoverished Pilots? Forgive me for being a doubter but something a little more concrete than a secret society is needed.As for giving fellas a leg-up, where were you when I needed ya? Guess i don't move in the right circles after 25 years in the business.
regards
Stovepipe

[willo]

They are registered in Switzerland,

That clears up why I havent heard of UFG, i was under the presumption, mistaken on my part, that it was Irish. With 22 members in Ireland, it is quite a small entity in Irish circles.

announcemet on 12th February

I never saw/heard the announcement, was it made in Irish Media? First I ever heard of this proposal was original post here

We are number 6394356

This is certainly not an Irish Registration Number. Current companies are in the range of about mid to late 400,000s.

RBN1A REG. OF BUS. NAME - PARTNERSHIP,

An RBN1A is a registration of business name for a partnership as indicated in your own quote. This is not a Limited Company, but a Partnership of two or more individuals. I'm not up to date on Limited Liability Partnerships, so will have to come back on these, but I believe that there is afurther filign requiremanet for these. I will check in morning, when internet connection is better!

UFG have registered "AOPA Ireland" as a business name, they have also incorporated it

Yes, the business name is registered, but how/where is it incorporated. There appears to be no corporate entity.

They shall remain the "Owners" of the name, so no-one can ever take it from the Irish aviators again.

They, I presume means UFG, a Swiss group of which there are only 22 members, how does that safeguard AOPA from being taken from Irish aviators again?

God Bless the doubtors!!

Does this imply that we shouldnt enquire about the construciton and consitution of an organisation that is seeking to represent us?

[willo]

Further to my last email:



RBN1A REG. OF BUS. NAME - PARTNERSHIP,
Sub No: 6394356, No: (not yet allocated), Name: AOPA IRELAND, Received: 02-Apr-2009, Effective: 02-Apr-2009, Total Cost: 20 EUR

This is only the submission, and is a sequential number given by CRO to submitted forms. no number has yet been allocated (as indicated above). This will be allocated upon receipt and registartion of the relevant document(s) probably the Signature form that came with the online RBN1A, duly signed.
The Business Name is not showing on the CRO site yet, and is not in place until the full documentation is received by the CRO


Comiong back on the form of the organisation, it is a partnerhsip, per the submission. Not all partners cvan have Limityed Liability. so by its nature, one, some or all of the partners must have unlimited liability. A Limited Partnership must be registered with the CRO by use of forms LP1 and LP3.

I do not want to bore you, but AOPA Ireland as you have outlined would not appear to be an Incorporated Body.

What is launching on May 1st?


[/quote]

[JoeMc]

Hi all

I don’t want to get involved in this debate, because I don’t have enough knowledge of AOPA or other representative bodies, but what I can tell you is that you don’t use an RBN1 for registering a limited company.

Normally a company set-up service provider is used to incorporate a company. These organisations have the facilities to publish the Memorandum and Articles of Association and the Company Share Register; they manufacture the Company Seal and submit the incorporation forms to the CRO. Upon receipt of these forms the CRO issue a Certificate of Incorporation to the directors of the company. By the time the directors receive the Cert of Incorporation the company should be live on the CRO site.

For anyone who has incorporated a company before, you will know what I mean as you will recall the paperwork required.

There is no requirement to submit a RBN1, this form is used to register a business name to a sole trader or partnership. There is a major legal difference between registering a business name and incorporating a company.

Also, I would think but I cant be sure because I don’t know the facts but it is likely that if you were incorporation a company for a body of persons such as this it would most likely need to be a Company Limited by Guarantee not Having Share Capital and will require an auditor. This is something you should check with your legal personnel.

As I mentioned I’m not giving an opinion on the debate, just trying to clear up some confusion regarding incorporation of companies.