[captain slow]

Once you leave westons zone and enter class G airspace you are not(Legally) required to talk to any ATC service or have a flight plan filed.
Pilots discretion

.

I agree that once you leave weston and are in class G you dont need a flight plan or a radio or to talk to anyone however but my point is that once you talk to someone either a control unit like weston or an information service you are entitled to an alerting service whether or not you bothered filing a flight plan.

I can only assume they were in contact with weston at some stage. They might also have been in contact with dub or shannon info or maybe not.

Of course if you choose not to talk to anyone while in class G then this scenario can happen where help is 12+ hours away. I know there are advocates of non radio/no radio use when flying but why not if you have one if it means you get an alerting service.

[libertyxl2flyer]

guys i think we could all talk about the atc issues on a different thread i dont think it is an appropiate thread we should all just be putting forward our saddness.

and i know by talking about these atc issues it may well save lives but on a diffenerent thread irish aviation is a small circle so people might know the victims so talking about the atc issues isnt very helpful to the grieving

lets just all show a little bit more caution

[Whisky Tango]

RTÉ Six One news have just reported that Weston Tower may not have followed the proper procedures. No more detail than that at the moment.

[captain slow]

Yes the alerting side of this should be left to another day or another seperate thread as i certainly dont want to contribute any further to the anguish for the people close to this.

However issues raised are invariably attached or related to a specific incident and so sometimes you cannot comment without it being quite specific.

My comments however are not just solely directed at or towards ATC....

And for the record again my deepest condolences .

[Whisky Tango]

Here is further detail on Weston Tower's alleged failure to follow "formal procedures" with this flight. If that's the case then they never follow them because I have not once been asked for all of the details outlined below (ie. fuel and POB). If it is an IAA requirement then there are serious questions to be answered. Then again RTÉ do not quote the source of this allegation so the whole thing is questionable, and in any case will not have contributed to the cause of the accident though possibly the S&R.

Procedures not followed for helicopter crash
Friday, 3 April 2009 19:54
It has emerged that formal procedures were not followed by Air Traffic Control at Weston Airport when a training flight left the airport before crashing half an hour later.

Details of the training flight should have been logged but were not.

The airport and academy operating the flight is insisting it complied with all protocols as it should have.

When a flight departs Weston and enters uncontrolled airspace, its identity, number of people on board, amount of fuel, flight area and time of arrival should be logged and passed on to Dublin Air Traffic Control according to the Irish Aviation Authority.

It has emerged this was not done in the case of the training flight which left the Airport on Wednesday evening with two men on board.

RTÉ News has learned that the pilot had a 30 second conversation with air traffic control when he was between Kilcock and Enfield confirming his altitude and location.

But 15 minutes later the helicopter crashed into Kilmurray bog, both the instructor and trainee were killed.

Tonight the European Helicopter Academy and Weston Airport insisted all proper protocalls were followed.

Two separate investigations are under way.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0403/kildare.html

[spider2000]

R.I.P

Very tragic and my thoughts are with the two guys families and friends.

I think the main reason people are questioning the ATC issue is because it i being reported in the media (RTE) so it is understandable that people may be looking for reasons etc. Perhaps a separate thread should be created so that it wont take from condolences etc.

To my mind the main issue surrounds whether or not an alerting service, if provided, may have been a factor in the survivability of the accident, i.e, what if the guys had been reached in the 'golden hour' could it have made the difference. I'd imagine these questions will be asked in the investigation.

Just my thoughts and again my deepest condolences

[500 fan]

Condolences to both families involved. May they rest in peace.

500 Fan.

[michael747]

Shocking news.
My sincere condolences to their families.

I'd the pleasure of meeting Colm a couple of times a few months back.

May he rest in peace

[mark]

Hi guys,

The report into this tragic accident was published today. It seems the AAIU took the issues relating to overdue aircraft very seriously as you will read in the comprehensive 42 page report.

http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?id= ... G&loc=1652