Galway airport, whats going on?

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Glenn
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Galway airport, whats going on?

Post by Glenn » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:44 pm

Can anyone shed any light on why galway EICM appears to be completely against general aviation?

Why is there such a ridiculously high landing fee (25 euro)?
Strange hours of operation too.

I mean its in such a nice part of the country and some amazing flying can be done in this region. I know for sure most people in this country fly because they have a passion for it and they absolutley love it. Galway would without doubt add something to this love. And i really think that it could flourish given the right oppurtunity.

I wonder sometimes how flying clubs can opearte from here given these charges?

Can anyone shed any light or are these views even shared. Can something be done?

Glenn :?:

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Post by KeithT » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:04 pm

I rather dislike Galway airport. I went in there a month or so back with Michael747 and we were hit with a €37 landing fee. Thirty flipping seven!

Almost straight away we were told it would be €13 but after about a 30 minute delay we were told it was in fact €37.

The ATC were absolutely fine with us but once we were on the ground it was not a pleasant experience in there and they clearly have an anti GA thing going on there.
It's a shame because that part of the country really is beautiful and if I'm out that way again I will not be planning on a visit to Galway.

Their loss :P
Last edited by KeithT on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tally1 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:06 pm

not a pleasant experience in there and they clearly have an anti GA thing going on there


Their loss


Has anyone considerd that they dont actually want GA?

Seems obvious just that they are not saying it publicly? As with a lot of airports when they reach a certain level of traffic they don't want those pesky little planes gettin in the way of the big planes that pay huge money to the company etc etc etc.

They was a big discussion here about galways 'navigation charge' . This went to arbitration with some heli operator and the arbitrator sided with galway. galway have felt justified in charging this to all and sundry since. But 2 things about this 1) arbitration is binding betwwen the two parties involved and no one else. 2) if this went to a full court hearing then its quite possible that galway dont have the authority to charge for the use of its airpace.

Naviagtion charge implies a fee for helping with navigation. Whatever about the IFR traffic what navigation help/assistance do galway provide to VFR traffic? Galways airspace is only seconded to galway by the IAA and the iaa dont charge vfr traffic for navigation thru its CAS or control zones /airports. Since the airspace is only borrowed during the hours of tower operation have they cleard this with the IAA to charge in its airspace. Does it divvy up some of the nav charge cash to the IAA?

When there is no controller in galways tower the airpace reverts to class G and ther is no charge applicable.

What happens if you fly thru one of the stubs. If there is no plane on the approach this airpace remains with shannon and only is this airspace handed over to galway for the duration of the approach after which point it reverts agian to shannon. Shannon dont charge-galway do.

It stinks.

So the conclusion must be that galway do not want GA traffic at all and will price all services, both imaginary and real, accordingly.

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Post by cubpilot » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:24 am

If we pilots were like French fishermen we would use blockade tactics to show our displeasure. how would galway cope if a bunch of planes flew legit just outside their zone on the approach paths and at various heights on a day with max cat movements.
the alternative is just for ga to boycott the place. In the 1980s boom exeter had a similar attitude to ga. southwest uk pilots gave up using it. when the downturn occurred the manager at exeter wrote in desparation to clubs and magazines to announce the place was ga friendly and landing fees were significantly reduced.
maybe the current downturn will wipe the smile off galway manager's face if there is no ga traffic.

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Post by scraggane » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm

can regional airports reasonably expect to bring in a whole lot of revenue from GA? I wouldn't have thought so.

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Post by stovepipe » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:59 pm

It's not that long ago when Galway Airport and the other regionals were mad for any traffic.The managers have short memories of long days with maybe one commercial flight per day and the very odd business jet or Air Corps flight.I remember being in several Air Corps aircraft, landing at the smaller airports, in Cessnas, helis and the King Air and they practically genuflected and couldn't do enough for us.I recall several attempts by politicians to get the Air Corps to relocate some aircraft permanently to regional airports. Even small clubs, local aircraft and visiting GA generate revenue at airports by buying fuel, food and parking spaces, provided it is reasonably priced.It is a characteristic of successful airports in the US and Canada that they cater for all shapes and sizes, unless the airport is a very large metropolitan unit. As any businessman will tell you, turning away businessis bad for business!
regards
Stovepipe

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Post by cubpilot » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:27 pm

How financially sound are these low cost airlines that places like Galway service? If newspaper financial reports are to be believed many are close to throwing in the towel so we could easily see GA becoming the main player again at regional airports.

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Post by driver1a » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:22 pm

Galway Airport has a very peculiar attitude to it's business. Only recently, they caused problems for a student pilot on a cross country by closing well before their scheduled time forcing a divert for fuel. The well publicised nav charge are another example. The problems they had with their own staff threatening strike only recently is yet another.

If as Tally 1 suggest, they are not interested in GA traffic, you have to ask exactly what sort of traffic do they want? Frankly you could hold car boot sales on the runway most days as it's practically disused except for the Aer Arann flights.

I have a suspicion that the management have ideas above their station. Thinking they're an important regional airport whereas in fact they are for the most part surplus to requirements because of their short narrow, bumpy, runway.

There will be a change of attitude soon. I would suggest, particularly if Aer Arann cuts services.

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Post by Whisky Tango » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:43 am

So it's sounding to me like the usual student long nav EIWT-EICM-EIAB-EIWT that a lot of students do might not be the best. What do Knock and Sligo charge in comparison? Are these charges laid out anywhere (AIP, etc)?

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Post by cubpilot » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:18 pm

Does anyone know what happened to the origional galway airport that was just outside oranmore? Galway flying club and aer aran shared the grass field on the top of a hill before they moved to the present location.
perhaps a place to provide an alternative galway and give them some competition?

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Post by hugoj_air » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:36 pm

cubpilot wrote:Does anyone know what happened to the origional galway airport that was just outside oranmore? Galway flying club and aer aran shared the grass field on the top of a hill before they moved to the present location.
perhaps a place to provide an alternative galway and give them some competition?


The old Oranmore airfield is still more or less as it was when it closed in 1973. It's located almost directly across the road from the Deerpark industrial estate where Executive Helicopters operate from.
Last year there was a suggestion that Oranmore could be devoloped as the "new" Galway Airport to replace Carnmore as further expantion is apparently no longer available there. Mind you with the downturn now
starting to bite hard, survival is uppermost in their minds, rather than
expanding and it will be very interesting to see if their negitive attitude
to GA changes because of this. The revenue generated from GA, even at
extortionate rates may be negligible, but at least it's another movement
to show the goverment when looking for more tax payer's money/grants.
As for starting up in competition to Carnmore, not a hope!! Guess who
would be first to object.

Hugo.

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Post by Nanolight » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:04 am

Even if you were to fly from another airfield, Galwsy Airport would still charge you for using their airspace woudln't they?
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

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Post by driver1a » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:12 pm

Exec helis now operate from a shiny new hangar beside the Aer Arann one in Galway airport.

Oranmore was the best place for the airport. It was actually chosen by the RAF alongside, Baldonnel, Collinstown, Aldergrove, Gormanstown (and Tallaght!) among others. It eventually closed due to the inbred crankiness so evident in Galway when everyone moved to Carnmore.

The RAF chose well as can be seen from the number of their bases still in use as airports.

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Post by Whisky Tango » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:06 pm

I never knew there used to be a different airport in Galway! When did they move from Oranmore?

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Post by Whisky Tango » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:07 pm

I never knew there used to be a different airport in Galway! When did they move from Oranmore?

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