155 Flight Plans filed with EINN for Cardiff Cup Final

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Post by tiny »

j3cub wrote:The Irish Sea was akin to the red sea, with a certain "Joxer goes to ....." feel to the GA proceedings in South Wales.

Two of us tipped into EGFH out of our C180 in Munster jerseys to be greeted by SB.

Great to be there for such a cracking game - the juice was worth the squeeze.


I was the one in the R44 waiting for fuel behind you in the Munster Jersey to.....

We then popped onto the Cardiff Heliport for the match.

What an atmosphere..... Well worth the trip....

Only problem was we had to return home on Sat night so i didn't get the chance to hit the town......

We flew over cardiff on the way into and out of the heliport and have a few good snaps of the stadium....

If anyone can tell me how to post a picture hear ill post a few of the roof open on the way in and it closed on the way out.....

Defiantly a day to remember.....


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Post by Pilot »

You can't make assumptions that there was alcohol involved in the session.

Flyer, I appreciate that William may be a friend of yours, but you're looking too hard for an excuse! It would be the first non-alcoholic drink that I've come across that results in
battling a serious hang over

kinda defeats the purpose of posting if your going to get a barriage of nonsense

Inverted, I am not a hanger pilot, and I'm not out to ruin anyone's weekend. I value my flying privlidges highly, and do not take kindly to someone else's actions which put them at risk. Abusing rules leads to further regulation, and expense.

Don't mind them, they're just a pair of jealous sissys.
You're home safe

I find it very strange that people can (rightly) critise drinking and diving, but take a different attitude to drinking and flying. We all know better than to go drinking on an "awful session", and then go driving the following morning "battling a serious hang over".

Drinking and flying don't mix.

William, you may think that I'm being harsh, and that there are no consequences to your actions, but unfortunately there are.

I do not need to be an AME to know that someone battleing a major hangover is not fit to fly. An airline pilot would most likely be fired if he turned up for work in that state.

Don't doubt for a minute that the IAA read this website; they do. They could easily identify you if they wish. How many navy C180 tail draggers flew from Ireland to Cardiff on Saturday, and returned on Sunday with two people on board, and filed their flight plan via Shannon? 155 flight plans is not that many to do through to find the answer. But if they wanted to, they don't even have to do that much; they can simply look up here, where you clearly identify your full name and phone number.

You should also think about your 36kt cross wind landing, in a tail dragger. You need to be on the top of your game, and current to do that safely, and certainly not suffering the effect of a session the night before. I've nothing against difficult crosswind landing, in fact I encourage people to explore their boundaries, but when suffering the effects of a major hangover is not the time to be doing it. If you had damaged your aircraft in that, we would all be paying the price in extra insurance premiums. Insurance is a major part of the cost of flying (in our club, despite no claims, it represents our second biggest cost, with only fuel being higher). We can all moan about the cost of flying, but if your combination of a hangover (possibly still alcohol in your blood stream) and challenging conditions resulted in an accident, we would all be paying for it in higher hourly rates.

But of course that didn't happen, and you and I both know that the IAA are unlikely to bother contacting you because they can prove nothing now, so you and your friends conclude that no harm was done; you arrived home safely, no damage to the aircraft, and no prosecution. You figure your actions have had no consequences.

Unfortunately that is not the case. You've told us about your weekend, let me tell you about mine.

On Sunday I went to the IAA GA conference in Enfield hoping to advance the cause of GA in this country. I managed to get talking to the IAA head of operations. I don't know if you are aware, but in the UK they have a rating called the IMCR. The basically allows pilots to fly non commerical IFR flights outside class A airspace. It only had a minimum of 25 hours of training, and requires revalidation every two years. It is much cheaper, simplier, and more appropriate to GA than the JAA IR.

This was due to disappear with the introduction of EASA, but a campaign in the UK resulted in EASA taking another look at it. EASA have decided that they would like to roll it out across Europe, but there is a snag. As it requires a change to national privlidges, and just one national authority can block it, EASA needs to get agreement from all National Authorities. EASA have agreed to compaign with national authorities to try to get them all to agree to it.

This would be a fantastic opportunity for GA in Ireland....IFR privlidges for less than €3K, and easy renewable. It would also open up the door to night flights (which must be conducted under IFR). It would be a brilliant advance for GA in this country (especially with our weather) and represent a major lightening of regulation.

Now, as I said I got talking to the IAA head of operations (one to one) and I raised this issue with him. His response was the the IAA would be very much against the introduction of the rating. I spoke of the safety record in the UK, and the benefits of further training for pilots, but he was having none of it. He position was, in his own words (as best as I can remember) "There are too many cowboys in this country, who operate outside the rules and regulations. They are a law unto themselves and operate in and out of grass strips making it difficult for us to enforce the rules on them. They simply don't follow the rules we set. If we gave them access to IFR flight they wouldn't follow those rules either, and that would simply be too dangerous. We can't let that happen." He accepted that most pilots are law abiding, but explained that there are a lot of "cowboys" around. He explained that they can see what's going on, but proving it is a different story.

I tried my best to convince him that people would respect the IFR rules if given a chance, but he was firm in his belief about people in GA ignoring the rules set. This would be a disaster, as if the IAA don't accept EASA's proposal for an EU IMCRating, then it's dead in the water.

Anyway, I came away hoping that some of my points may have remained in the back of his mind and that he might give it further consideration.

Then I come here on Monday morning and read your posting about going out on a "awful session" and telling the world (and the IAA) that you flew home on "Sunday morning battling a serious hang over", and realised that perhaps the IAA are correct after all. If nothing else, once they read your post it will reinforce in their mind, their own view of GA pilots.

Your actions do have consequences. I spent my Sunday trying to reduce the regulatory burden on GA, and trying to extend our privlidges, and then in one foul swoop when the IAA read your post, you will have undermined it all.

Despite the fact that you are unlikely to be followed up by the IAA for your actions, and despite that fact that you didn't crash and affect all our insurance premiums, your actions do have consequences....it ensures that we have a highly regulated environment for some time to come.


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Post by ei6265 »

To be honest, I think J3's "battling a serious hangover" comment might have been exaggerated due to the weekend that was in it and the style of his story (which is quite a light-hearted read).

However, it just so happens by chance a friend of mine referred me to a link yesterday which I find highly applicable to this thread.

Full article here: http://www.studentpilot.com/articles/me ... ical_id=19

2nd last paragraph is the big-one:

The subtle effects of a hangover can be just as hazardous as the state of intoxication itself. Morning-after weariness dulls your system and detracts from peak efficiency. Recent research by the FAA's Office of Aviation Medicine indicates that some functions may require up to 2 days for complete recovery following a "binge."

Stay safe!

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Post by N714GZ »

Little Boy Lost wrote:J3,
Don't mind them, they're just a pair of jealous sissys.

A very mature statement. Nice to have some intelligent input to the debate. Well done.


Flying is a privilege. You have a responsibility to yourself, to your passengers, to the general public on the ground and last but definitely not least, to your fellow pilots.

I'm sure you're a nice guy and your friends obviously think you worth defending, but you let your fellow pilots down with your hangover comments. I fly for a living. It's my job. General Aviation puts bread on my table.There are many people who work hard to maintain a safe and well respected flying community. It is only with that work will GA ever come close to reaching it's full potential in this country, as it has and is doing elsewhere. This will happen with the implementation of new procedures and practices and the easing of regulations. How can a governing authority be encouraged to ease regulations when this type of behaviour is being boasted about on a public website?

What can you do now? You cant back down. The loss of face would be too much. You can only hope that the mutual reinforcement from your buddies above comes across to the reader as the predominant theme they take from this thread. But remember, mutual reinforcement can be a dangerous thing. The phrase defending the indefensible comes to mind.

Let me get one thing straight with you before you come back with another sarcastic mis-directed response as you did to my last comment , I am not bringing your judgment into question. You did however, bring it into question yourself when you made the original comment. That you only have yourself to blame for, not me. I had no intention of entering this discussion until Pilot was derided for making a very valid point. Nobody forced you to go on an "awful session". Nobody forced you to fly "battling a serious hangover". Nobody forced you to shout about it on a public forum.

Best to let this lie now, there is nothing further you could possibly add to strengthen your position.

Whether you fly into an international airport or a 350m farm strip, the same responsibilities apply.

Next time there's always Ryanair.
Last edited by N714GZ on Tue May 27, 2008 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Post by j3cub »

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Post by inverted »

"I'd say 10 more posts and we'll have a good bitching match going......"

I rest my case............

And dont even think of posting a smart arse response to that !

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Post by alphaLaura »

Well I sure am glad that I haven't started this one!
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

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Post by extra300 »

It would have been really cool to fly over to cardiff id say.

Im sure glad Paul O'Connell decided against taking a penalty with about 5 mins to go and just ride out the storm! Not as much glory as the 2006 final but still an excellent achievement :o Well done lads!

Can i have the back seat in someone's aircraft for next years final :lol: :lol:

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Post by ilovebeatups »

Lighten up folks it might never happen. I thought our flying was for a bit of crack. As long as it works and the authorities aren't p***** off.
Well done Munster

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Post by Flyer1 »

I knew this would happen :roll:

Play safe and be safe !

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Post by RV BLUE »

j3cub wrote:Pilot - I think you've taken a good intentioned story and tried to make an attempt to hijack it with your own agenda which ranges from:

I am enlightened by your views into policy making, and am in continued awe at yet another one of your assumptions.

In conclusion you've taken a thread which I started to see who was going to the Munster match, and turned it into a self adopted soap box for your nonsensical assumptions, and insulting judgments. You are now squarely off topic.

Well Done Munster


Excellent....Bravo......Encore........ Pilot your suffering from a really bad case of "I love me" syndrome....just the kind of person one hates to bump into at a local airport......

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Post by ifty »

There are people like Pilot in all branches of aviation who do have a lot of good points and information/advice to pass on. However it seems to get lost when they start to "go off on one" which is a shame, as I have read other posts from him and found them to be quite informative but now it will just get lost because of what some people believe to be a "rant"

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Post by mr crow »

Last edited by mr crow on Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by hibby »

RV BLUE wrote:just the kind of person one hates to bump into at a local airport......

I respectfully disagree. As a new PPL I see Pilot as a role model and can only aspire to the level of knowledge of GA that he's displayed on this Board. His responsible attitude clearly doesn't interfere with his love of flying. I think those of us who still have a lot to learn (maybe that should include all of us?) should count ourselves lucky to bump into Pilot and people like him in the course of our flying careers.

(Not literally bump into, obviously. That would definitely be bad for insurance premiums... :P )

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Post by eclipse500 »

Been following on this for a while but feel moved to raise certain points. Certainly Pilot may very useful information within his own areas of interest in flying... but imposing harsh judgments on others without knowing all the facts AND taking a thread across a wide ranging rant on many unrelated topics is probably not the best way to illustrate his "Professional Approach".....

It may be best to pick your aspirational characters in flying from people who have more demonstrated skill....... rather than someone you like off a discussion forum. Brian Lecomber, Polly V, Mark Jeffries on a bigger scale, and within Ireland we can all think of who's been round the block in fields such as Aerobatics, Flight Training Proprietors, Flight Examiners, Aircraft Restoration Experts. If your going to hold someone up as a role model hibby, better off learning from someone with known decades of experience, than someone vying to make a name for themselves in here.

Sounds like a good jovial story off two lads on a weekend away - all safe no harm done - no drama.

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