An Englishman flying from Newtownards to Waterford
  • Dave P
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    An Englishman flying from Newtownards to Waterford

    by Dave P » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:04 pm

    Hi, I'm trying to get my head around the best way to get from North to South around Dublin. I've ordered a new VFR chart but wouldn't mind doing some initial planning. The problem I've got is figuring how to get around Dublin. The straight line takes me straight over Casement - I guess that is a non-starter. A closer look presents me with a number of additional airspace restrictions to the West. Assuming that the flight will be at or about 2000-3000ft, has anyone got a recommendation of a route to follow?

    Thanks in anticipation.

    David P
    G-DPEP
  • dara
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    by dara » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:16 pm

    Alot of the time casement will clear you through the restricted airspace.
    its a day to day thing tho.
    i went from waterford to weston and pretty much went direct
    If you are asking me if this old plane is safe to fly, how do you think it got to be this old?
  • fast oiseau
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    transit

    by fast oiseau » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:36 pm

    Dave,
    it is not too difficult to obtain a VFR transit from Skerries to Portmarnock to Killiney.A lot depends on the runway in use at EIDW.If it is RWY 28 expect to drop to 1000/500 ft ish and fly just alongside the coast.You may have to hold at times as they thread you through a gap in commercial traffic.I have done this many times over the years and it is not as daunting as it sounds.A lot depends on the level of traffic and whether the ATC A or B team are on duty.Be prepared for and don't be surprised by a refusal.
    The airspace to the west of EIDW appears complicated due to the proximity of Weston and Baldonnel.If you think of the airspace as an upturned wedding cake then it makes it easier to get a mental model of the free airspace.
    However for convenience and peace of mind I suggest you route just to the east of Trim(EITM) then east of Clonbullogue(EICL) and straight to EIWF.Give EICL a call as it is a very active parachuting airfield and it is worth a visit as they are an eclectic(eccentric?)bunch and they have a good canteen.
    Call EIWF in advance for a clearance to enter the zone.However,the zone is regularly suspended if there is no airline traffic and it reverts to class G.Consult notams.They are a nice bunch there as well.
    Cheers
    Oiseau
  • dara
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    by dara » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:13 pm

    Waterford is pretty much always class C during the day at the moment, call them a good 10 minutes from the zone boundary.
    If you are asking me if this old plane is safe to fly, how do you think it got to be this old?
  • Hoss
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    by Hoss » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:17 pm

    Dave,
    I think you'll find that EIWF has full time ATC now, also prior permission is required.
    Hoss.
  • shrtfld
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    by shrtfld » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:27 pm

    Am I not correct in saying that as Dave will be crossing the FIR boundary he is going to need to file a flight plan? Such being the case he will be working Shannon on 127.5 and they will hand off to EIWF.

    A number of times when I have been flying to EIWF ATC indicated that they were out of Avgas. It has happened on at least three occasions in the past year or so. When getting PPR (mandatory) from ATC in EIWF, check about fuel.
    Shrtfld
  • fast oiseau
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    Flight plan

    by fast oiseau » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:47 pm

    yes,a flight plan is mandatory.In addition,from Daves perspective,a GAR form is required within Northern Ireland to satisfy the PTA act,both outbound and inbound.
    oiseau
  • michael747
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    by michael747 » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:06 pm

    Hey,

    If you really wanna head down the coast to EIWF, I'd suggest that you should fly via EIWT. If you fly just east of Trim and at 1500' to EIWT, They'll hand you off to Dublin Tower to proceed to the Pegeon House Chimneys - Bray - Wicklow and then on to EIWF. It's a great stressfree way to see the lot of dublin also. However, If Runway 34 or Runway 16 is active you'd be better off taking fast oiseau's advice and sticking to the east coast all the way, i do think if 10/28 is active you could waste a lot of time depending on the ATC though..... If you haven't seen Dublin City from the sky i'd reccomend flying via Weston. You'll fly right over Aras An Uachtarain at 1000ft QNH, And the the Spike and Stuff.

    The only thing i dont like about flying over Dublin is the ATC in the Tower, They talk @ 90 to the dozen!!!! :lol: :lol:

    Have fun :D
    And let us know how you get on
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • Dave P
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    by Dave P » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:16 am

    Thanks for the responses. Yep, a GAR Form is necessary for the police and I alway file a FPL for 'international' flights. Thanks for the heads-up on AVGAS; I suffered a similar problem last year at Knock although, on that occasion, they hadn't even NOTAMed any change to their refueling capabilities. Fortunately I had enough fuel to get to Enniskillen!
  • dara
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    by dara » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:44 am

    The Avgas probelm was due to the bowser breaking down :D
    If you are asking me if this old plane is safe to fly, how do you think it got to be this old?
  • buzz
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    by buzz » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:55 pm

    Going the coastal route can work well. But sometimes you can find yourself orbiting while a stream of airliners go past. While the airspace west of Dublin looks a tad complicated. It's usually straightforward enough to get through. You can in fact pass through without even talking to ATC at all, with some judicious routing. But better to call Dublin as you get near the zone. They'll tell you remain clear of controlled airspace and leave you to get on with it. They'll be busy with airliners but if not you may get some traffic info. But many aircraft operating out of Weston don't bother to talk to Dublin although they may monitor the frequency. Their training area is west of and under the controlled airspace and is often busy. So watch out.

    You definitely should talk to Weston if you pass close to them as they have lots of traffic routing in an out via Maynooth and Kilcock. They will tell you if military is active. Even if military is inactive you should call them and monitor the frequency. They often pop up suddenly, particularly after lunch! You can cross overhead Baldonnel but more likely to the west through one of the R16s. Sometimes if they have IFR traffic you may end up underneath at 1000ft. But usually they have no problems letting people through. Quite often their only traffic is in the circuit so only R15 may be active. Also there is a lot of civil helicopter traffic down low south and west of Baldonnel so bear that in mind. Not all of them bother to talk to anyone. The military will also advise you if Clonbulloge is active, should you be near it.

    Enjoy your trip.
  • stovepipe
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    by stovepipe » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:02 pm

    Hi there
    File for as high as you can get, if the weather co-operates.If you are going to be under positive ATC control the whole way down, then ask if you can route directly overhead Dublin, direct to EIWF. As long as you are above 5000', it shouldn't be a problem.I think ATC have a mental block about letting people do that.I have done it often, abroad.Try it if you can't get a routing along the coast.
    regards
    Stovepipe
  • OnTheNumbers
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    by OnTheNumbers » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:37 pm

    I'm inclined to take something based on fast oiseau's suggestion.

    I dunno whether the EG P436 would be a factor but if you route from Newtonwards to Castleblaney, you should be able to go pretty much direct to Waterford and add only 10NM extra for the convenience.

    You'll be clear up to 3500 to the west of the Dublin zone until you reach the R16. If Military don't let you through (a lot of the time you will get through), if you go down under 1500ft you'll get under it in about 20nm. After that you'll get up to 4500. Then onward to wateford.

    The other advantage of that track is that you'll have plenty of options for diversions all the way down - Trim, Clonbullogue, Kilrush, Kilkenny

    There's also plenty of nav features on the way down.

    There's the thoughts of a newly-minted PPL.

    David
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  • tu154
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    by tu154 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:50 pm

    Almost all the prohibited areas up north have been removed with the exception of a remaining few above prisons. The south armagh one is no more. UK AIP has info and it may still be NOTAMed, although it's been a while since the change.
    One thing to watch for when flying down south as compared to the UK is, 'major' irish airports are class C airspace and will require a flight plan for all movements. This includes Dublin, Weston, Waterford, Cork, Kerry, Shannon, Galway, Knock, Sligo, Donegal. The remainder don't require flight plans. You may get away with calling up before the zone boundary, but don't count on it.
  • OnTheNumbers
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    by OnTheNumbers » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:32 pm

    Grand so, then my advice stands. Route to Castleblaney and straight to Waterford. You'll need the flight plan to cross the FIR and to enter Waterford's zone but the rest of flight can be conducted in class G.

    You don't need a flight plan to ask for a transit through the Military zone, just radio them 15 minutes (I think) before the boundary

    David
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