Whats wrong with recreational flying in Ireland?

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ceatach
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Whats wrong with recreational flying in Ireland?

Post by ceatach »

If somebody asked you for a concise list of the controllable problems facing recreational aviation in Ireland, what would you say?

- Shortage of flight instructors
- Shortage of training aircraft

Please add...

Pilot
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Post by Pilot »

Unattainable Instrument flight qualification (Potential for a qualification similar to the IMCR in the UK, getting extended across the EU as EASA takes over)
Lack of night VFR flights
Excessive duty and taxes on aviation fuel



The obvious one is lack of GA airports around the capital city, but I'm not sure that is controllable. Only possibility solution would be to ask the Dept of Defence to open Baldonnel.

Mark H
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recreational flying

Post by Mark H »

Shortage of Instructors

Shortage of Airfields

Shortage of Recreational flight rules

Shortage of common sense approach

Shortage of AOPA in Ireland

Shortage of Money (I wish I could control this better!)

Shortage of flying weather (unfortunately this is a hard one to control)

No shortage of:

Regulations

Rules

Red Tape

stovepipe
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Post by stovepipe »

Hi there
Rules, especially those generated by the officious types prevalent at some airfields.many of these rules are generated at random and subject to the whim of the rule-creator.
Money: fly a permit aircraft or a microlight, if you are short of cash. Give up the smokes, chocolate, comics,etc to pay for flying.
Europe: every European aviation regulator in every EU country should be dragged by the scruff to America and force-fed the FARs and made to shit identical EU regulations.They should be chained to the ramp at Oshkosh for the week of the EAA Fly-In and not fed, watered or released until they make Europe use-friendly for aviators again.Start with FAR 1...any regulator who comes up with a scheme, idea or plan that costs money should be shot with a ball of his own shite.If the great American FAA system, despite it's faults, can run itself on fuel taxes, then so can Europes. Americans regard flight as a right, not a privilege that has to be dragged out of bureaucrats.
Enuf! I'll start smashing my keyboard next...
regards
Stovepipe

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Post by RV BLUE »

stovepipe wrote:Europe: every European aviation regulator in every EU country should be dragged by the scruff to America and force-fed the FARs and made to shit identical EU regulations.They should be chained to the ramp at Oshkosh for the week of the EAA Fly-In and not fed, watered or released until they make Europe use-friendly for aviators againStovepipe


Bravo Bravo.....thats it in a nutshell....spectacular answer to the question....but wait a minute...do I hear someone saying "but we're Irish we dont want to be the same as anybody else...t'would be far too easy now"

Go to the EAA site and watch the new video about AirVenture 2008

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Post by michael747 »

Why would you look at all the negative things abut it :roll: :roll:

What a redicules topic........ :lol: :lol:

If only the wright brothers could witness this :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Regards,
M747
:D

Pilot
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Post by Pilot »

M747,

Ceatach has posted here before in his capacity as a NASRAv committee member.

I suspect his post is not about moaning, but rather about getting a feel for where the pilot population in general percive the problem (which can be sorted) are.

It's actually a positive effort, rather than just a moan ;)

P

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Post by OnTheNumbers »

Tis a little negative MikeyD but I suspect that what Ceatach was trying to was look at the problems with a view to discussing solutions. I'm drawing that inference from the phrase "controllable problems"

While Stovepipe's rant was somewhat negative in approach :-) ..... it is POSITIVELY the best description of what many of us have felt for some time.

If the Wright bros were here the first thing they would do is collect all the existing knowledge about the the problem before trying to solve it. That said... if JAA/EASA was here before Orvillle and Wilbur, they might never have gotten off the ground!!
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Post by Fanstop »

A good debate and i agree with most of the points made already. If you want to see how GA can progress just look at France and they operate undert the same rules as us. Dont they? Perhaps we add to our own problems. Just look at our advantages. Relatively open skies. Lots of uncongested regional airports and Cork and Shannon are not really bursting with activity. Have we lobbied to get the landing cost down? Why not open Baldonnel? Have you asked to land there? and as for the lack of smaller grass strips ask your local farmer, stick up a wind sock and away you go. If some moron in galway sends ya a nav charge just ignore it. if they take you to court just show up and thell the judge that they have no power to charge for that non service. I agree the USA is the best place to fly because of their 'can do' attitude. As for the IAA yea we have issues there the recent language thing is a silly waste of money i would bet that they are embarrased by it. if they charge money for it just dont do it. Follow the safe rules ignore the stupid ones and go fly.

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Post by alphaLaura »

I agree with everything Fanstop has said - I think alot of this is 'creating our own problems'. I reckon we have a very healthy amount of airfields ("farm strips" and airports and private runways) and a decent proportion of open skies. We could do a lot better by taking on the FAA's style of 'can do'.

The only thing I would mention which bugs me is the excessive duty and taxes on aviation fuel as Pilot mentioned. I'm a cliche 'poor student' so the money is the dominant force in flying for me.

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Post by michael747 »

Pilot wrote:M747,

Ceatach has posted here before in his capacity as a NASRAv committee member.

I suspect his post is not about moaning, but rather about getting a feel for where the pilot population in general percive the problem (which can be sorted) are.

It's actually a positive effort, rather than just a moan ;)

P


Well if it was for a good reason fair dues, And it doesn't mention anythin about NASRAv,it just seemed like a moan :lol: :lol:

I have a negative one anyway:

Whats with all the old tins cans about, I'd drive from Kildare to Cork to fly the likes of a new SR22 or DA40.
I think ST in EIWT has the newest fleet in the country do they, Maybe i should go there and fly!

Regards and safe flying
Regards,
M747
:D

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Post by Pilot »

There is a very big difference between the US & French systems, and that of Ireland.

In the US system there are very large Fedral annual grants to airfields including very small ones. In the French system the local government funds many of their airfields, again including very small ones.

I'm sure if that could be considered 'controllable' in the context of Ireland....I doubt it somehow in the current economic climate.

dp

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Post by stovepipe »

Hi there
In France, flying is regarded as a sporting activity so it gets Government sponsorship on the perfectly reasonable basis that if every other sport gets money for development and training, then so should flying.Also, it ensures a steady stream of pilots for the Military and the airlines and commercial GA flying.Even the big companies sponsor flying clubs (such as the Big Three car companies) and provide discounted flying to employees. Airfields open to the public are the responsibility of their local municipality and are regarded as a green-space asset.Homebuilding, microlight flying, gliding,etc are all encouraged at national level.In America, there are plenty of strong local initiatives, such as the Young Eagles and the great EAA. As for flying over here, at grassroots level, microlighting is expanding all the time but is comparatively unknown as a sporting activity.Incidentally, many of the new aircraft are as sophisticated as you could want and are comparatively cheap.The microlighters are showing how it is possible to fly for small money and avoid controlled airspace and have lots of fun doing it...There are low-cost Group A aircraft out there, if you are prepared to do some leg-work( see SAAC, CAACI and the LAA in the UK) and are prepared to use grass strips.You'd be amazed how many GA pilots do not want to land on grass, fly a taildragger, swing a prop, fly in an aircraft made of wood or fabric or one that doesn't have a VOR. Kevin Glynn's Flight Guide should be in the flight bag of every true pilot and should be used as a guideline on where to go and what to do, for anyone with a bit of adventure in them and a willingness to give it a go.
regards
Stovepipe

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Post by Flyer1 »

My beef is more of a flying club thing then anything else,

No matter where you go, we're flying 20 - 40 year old technology, and paying through the bloody nose for it. Sure, you might be flying a newish cessna 172, but it's still old technology, and you're paying over the odd's for it. Some clubs/schools are slowly coming around and seeing sense, why pour all this money into old stuff. Some of the clubs/schools are buying modern machines, i.e. Kilkenny with the Tecnam, Birr with the Eurostar, just a few examples. I wouldn't drive a 40 year old ford cortina and put a few grand into it every year just to keep it running. But as I said, thats more of a club problem than flying in general in Ireland.

It's been mentioned before here,

landing fee's to land in a lot of places
flightplan to go here
ahhh you couldn't do that now and run the risk of having fun
sure we'll take ?700 off you for a good days flying

Money is poured in this country into GAA, and every feckin sporting event that might happen.

It's just the overall attitude of the authorities to aviation and such.

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Post by Bearcat »

my beef is the country has become a police state. Every airport now is inundated with their local noise and movement monitors that have moved in to the local area.....take legal action....and try and get the airfield to close down. Cases in mind....weston and now kilrush.

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