Flying to the Isle of Man!!

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jonkil
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Post by jonkil » Fri May 09, 2008 10:10 pm

buzz wrote:You will feature significantly on that evening's news bulletins. Probably with the words 'missing' and 'wreckage' featured prominently. The truth is that if you have to ditch the lifejacket will just make it easier to find the body.

I agree, however
I have made the crossings from Ireland to UK & back quite a lot of times.... the last crossing last weekend from Wales to Kilkenny was quite a jaunt, especially in a microlight. We as a group have decided to purchase the McMurdo ELT/PRB with the GPS feature.... at least it gives a track accurate to 50 metres...... so hopefully a rescue would be made quickly.... and to boot if we get a good height for the crossings (5000ft+) then the time to hitting the surf is considerable, especially in the glide ratio we have on a microlight.
Water crossings should be treated with the respect they demand, but should not be feared if the correct preparation is done.
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ilovebeatups
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Flying to the Isle of Man

Post by ilovebeatups » Sun May 11, 2008 9:54 am

I believe low wing wooden taildraggers are the safest way to cross a pond. Apparently they float for a while. Sounds good to me.

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Post by Kevlar » Sun May 11, 2008 12:53 pm

I agree with Ilovebeatups, if I recall correctly there was a case of a low wing, wodden taildragger which took a swim and the guy was found standing in the cockpit whilst the plane was floating, wearing his business suit, furthermore I believe the plane is still flying!!! :lol:
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Post by Nanolight » Sun May 11, 2008 12:59 pm

Is that a Jodel 112?
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Post by alphaLaura » Sun May 11, 2008 2:00 pm

How about high-wing tailwheels?!
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Post by Rudy » Sun May 11, 2008 2:18 pm

Hi alphaLaura.
Apparently on "touchdown" the high wings nose over and the world is then upside down and wet. Not for me thanks!
Rudy

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Post by alphaLaura » Sun May 11, 2008 4:46 pm

But it'd still float right...?!

Time for ACA to think about a low-winged Citabria :idea:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Post by Pilot » Tue May 13, 2008 11:11 am

There is a lot of old wives tales about ditching being told on this thread.

The simple answer, is that there isn't enough research into it being done to accurately know what tips over, what floats etc.

If you'd like to do a little research of your own, this is an excellent site to read up on
http://www.equipped.com/ditchtoc.htm

The site can probably be sumed up by saying that the conclusion that they reach is that 80% of people successfully exit a ditched aircraft, but 80% of those 80% die in the water from either drowning or hypothermia.

If you want to survive, you need to be properly prepared and equipped. Life jackets, and a briefing on the way down is neither properly prepared nor equipped.


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Post by Nanolight » Tue May 13, 2008 2:35 pm

That was a most interesting read Pilot, and indeed extremely sobering.

Really makes you think about the possibilities:

If the aircraft is floating, the temptation to re-enter and help someone out can be strong. Consider carefully, for the plane will likely sink without warning. If the plane is submerged, never re-enter. If you need to try and help someone, dive down, get a good grip on something on the exterior and reach in. Otherwise, a panicked or drowning person can easily pull you inside inadvertently, trapping you both.


*Shudder.
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Post by Bluebeard » Wed May 14, 2008 4:29 am

There's plenty of good advice in this thread about flying to the Isle of Man, what about flying back to Ireland? What do those pundits here, with a penchant for legal fine points, think about flying into Irish airfields re (i) customs and (ii) immigration, from the IoM, which is not in the EU?

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Post by Rudy » Wed May 14, 2008 11:41 am

The answer is obvious Bluebeard...If we don't highlight it then everything can proceed as it always has. If questions are asked about the rights and wrongs then some "do gooder" will get these little benefits stopped!" Just keep on doing it...quietly.

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Post by jonkil » Wed May 14, 2008 10:49 pm

Bluebeard wrote:There's plenty of good advice in this thread about flying to the Isle of Man, what about flying back to Ireland? What do those pundits here, with a penchant for legal fine points, think about flying into Irish airfields re (i) customs and (ii) immigration, from the IoM, which is not in the EU?


I think the fact that your GAR form has your passport details/nationality/contact details/reasons for visit e.t.c is good enough.
One of the reasons that you must file it 24 hours prior to departure probably lets them check you out. Had special branch turn up at a field in Northern Ireland after we flew in and we were able to produce our paperwork and all was OK. If you file your GAR, you are in effect declaring your intent and hiding nothing, compliance to the law is the pilots responsibility.

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Post by Pilot » Wed May 14, 2008 11:23 pm

jonkil,

2 things.

1. Gar is only 12 hours notice, not 24 ;)
2. GAR if for UK authorities only, not Irish. Bluebeard is asking about coming into Ireland, not the UK ;)

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Post by tinto_85 » Fri May 16, 2008 6:32 pm

When returning to Ireland from Ronaldsway is it acceptable to file a flight plan over the phone to the AIS in Shannon or do I have to file one to a UK Authority in order to get clearance back to Dublin???

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Post by Bluebeard » Fri May 16, 2008 7:47 pm

Veering a bit off-topic, the GAR procedure is one of the most pointless impediments to flying around these islands (other than the price of fuel :roll: ). While enacted under the heading of preventing "terrorism" it now seems to be mainly just a bureaucratic intelligence-gathering exercise. Considering the makeup of the current NI government you'd think that tracking the pilots of private planes on intra-British Isles flights is pretty daft. And Bad Persons are unlikely to worry about filling up forms.

Different UK police forces have quite different ideas about what is required of the non-commercial private pilot. Common myths:
- "You need to get permission": you do not need to get permission ;(at least one force actually requires you to get a flight authorisation number), your obligation is to give "at least 12 hours' notice in writing to a constable for the police area in which the port is situated" ;
- "You need to notify PC Bloggs, and he's out at present": you do not need to notify a named officer, see quote above;
- "You need to give 24 hours' notice": the law requires 12 hours, see above;
- "GAR form required when entering the UK from France etc." - some forces seek this but there seems to be no legal basis.
- "But officer, I sent my fax to the National Co-ordination Unit"; in spite of the name, this is for Customs only and only a few forces seem to accept it as compliance with the police obligation. I presume all the readers of this thread dutifully fax UK Customs every time they enter or leave N Ireland.

There is ongoing confusion as to the correct fax numbers to use, most of the published police numbers on the commonly-used GAR format are inoperative.

Keep a proof of your fax transmission, you may be challenged (in fact, some day you will definitely be challenged). Also it would be wise to carry a copy of the relevant Schedule to the Terrorism Act 2000 with the ship's papers to ward off overzealous guardians of the law.

The United Kingdom seems to be the only country in Europe (except perhaps Russia) that requires police clearance/notification for some internal domestic private flights.

Maybe the only thing worse than the GAR procedure would be if there was no procedure. Ireland is I think unique in Europe in having no GA access to the airspace of mainland Europe without passing through its immediate neighbour's airspace. At least, if you have the range, you don't have to land there!

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