Flying to the Isle of Man!!
  • michael747
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    Flying to the Isle of Man!!

    by michael747 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:13 pm

    Hi,

    I was thinking of flying to the Isle of Man on Monday coming.

    Taking off from Weston @ 1300 i want to route EIWT - Navan - Drogheda - Kileel - Downpatrick and then across the water to the IOM....

    And maybe stay the night in a nearby hotel or B&B and fly home the next morning!!!

    If anyone could share their experience with flying there i'd really appreciate it.
    The do's and dont's, What i'll need, paperwork etc..
    Is there only one airport? I cant find much on the IOM Airport website!
    And do i just need to file a normal flightplan and fill in the GAR form?

    I'd really appreciate if you could share your experience, Especially on the difference on the Airspace up there!!!

    Looking forward to your replies.

    Regards
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • buzz
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    by buzz » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:09 am

    The one thing I would suggest is that you check opening hours, customs etc. I flew there a few years ogo one winter day. They got all crabby about having to stay open for us. Remember at this time of year it gets dark early. Best to check the scheduled flights and what time they are due in. They might be closing early. Other than that I only have positive memories of the place.
  • Pilot
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    by Pilot » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:03 pm

    Hi Michael,

    Good luck on your flight.

    Can't say I see much issue with your routing. Going via Kilkeel adds about 8 miles to your trip, but takes nearly 13 off your cross water part, although it may add a lot of time across Dundalk Bay if you add this directly. This compromise is a personal compromise that only you can decide on ;)

    Dublin ATC will probably ask you for an estimate of the FIR boundary since you're going across the border, so have it ready, and it will save you some brain power ;)

    I understand that you intend to do this at 7000ft. A couple of things I'd say here. Firstly I agree, go as high as you can get. In my experience Dublin ATC can be reluctant to let small aircraft climb into controlled airspace, but it helps if you let them know early that you want to climb, and your route doesn't affect the departures/arrivials that their commerical traffic is using that day. I suspect you'll be fine on that score. It also helps if you sound competent, so don't ask for 7000ft, but rather Flight Level 70 ;) Also remember your flight plan gets filed as "F070".

    A caution here too. Obviously the cloud base may not let you climb that high (looks good tomorrow) but you face one other issue here. We are in a high pressure situation at the moment, and it's been pretty stable. It's likely that Viz won't be great. 10Km viz is ok, if altogether easy, when flying over land, but it's damn hard work when flying over the sea. With 10km viz over the water, the sky and the sea can merge into one, and to all intends and purposes you might as well be in cloud...all you can see is straight down. If you're not comfortable with the conditions turn back, and wait for a day with better viz. Viz can be a very significant problem over water, on a day when it's not an issue over land. It can help to fly lower, as you don't have as much air to look through to see the surface, which can help significantly.

    Also, don't let your altitude convince you that you don't need life jackets and a life raft. There are lots of reasons why you might end up ditching, and you'll have no chance of surviving without both at this time of year.

    I don't know if you're used to flying into larger airports or now, but if you aren't then I should say that you'll need a taxi diagram, as this is how ATC will tell you where to go. You can get it by going to http://www.ais.org.uk here and registering (it's free-register as UK & Foreign States).
    Once you've logged on select, Publications from the top menu, then UK AIP, then "Go to the UK AIP", then UK AIP, then UK AIP, Aerodrome & Heliport index specific, and then Isle of Mann. The chart that you are looking for is Aerodrome Chart-ICAO. It shows all the taxiway designators. From memory the flying club (who will handle you) are somewhere close to D1.

    Also have a read of the textual data ;)

    Officially the IOM is a special branch and customs designated airport, but the flying club seems to want you to fax your GAR in advance for some reason.

    I also heard that they have a club car available for hire for ?10, but have never availed of it myself. Might be nice to get it and drive into town ;)

    Not much else I can add it that really. If you aren't used to flyin at FL70 then don't forget that you need to plan your desent! There's not much point arriving over the VOR with 7000ft to lose in 5 miles! I'd say you'll probably need a 500fpm desent starting about 15-20 miles out from the VOR to arrive over it at 3000ft....that will depend on your speed obviously!

    Have a great trip, and mind the viz! If you're not happy turn back!

    P
  • Nanolight
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    by Nanolight » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:26 pm

    Wow pilot, your some man for the informative posts! I read all of that out of pure interest and I am not even going anywhere, other than to bed in a few mins :P

    Fair play to ya, :) And Micheal, lettuce know how you get on.
    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
  • michael747
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    by michael747 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:48 pm

    Hi Pilot,

    Thanks very much for your advice in your post.
    You really know your stuff.
    Unfortunatly i wont be going to the IOM tomorrow, I was chatting to my flight instructor and he said i'd be better off doing a good 2 hour brief on international flying, and then do a sign off. i.e. fly to the IOM with an instructor and then do it solo!!!

    I thought i would have being well up for it as i'm not as in experienced as some, But anyway it's too late now as i've to fax the GAR form 24hrs before departure!

    But i will definatly be going very very soon, So dont feel as if your post will go to waste, it will be more than usefull even when people ask me for the same advice, I will take credit until the end when i tell them who told me though :lol: :wink: :wink:

    Anyway i'll be heading to Shannon and Waterford tomorrow, Maybe a T&G in Cork, if i can fit cork in that is.

    Thanks again P.

    Regards,
    Michael
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • Pilot
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    by Pilot » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:00 pm

    No problem. If you know all the stuff from the first UK thread, and have a good read of the CAA VFR guide that I pointed out in that thread, then I doubt the international briefing will take two hours. You'll probably know more than your instructor ;)

    Oh by the way...the site I mentioned about for getting the taxi diagrams is also your source for UK NOTAMS. What's more, you can also get the Irish NOTAMS from it too. Not sure if you knew this already or not.

    P
  • KeithT
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    by KeithT » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:47 pm

    Pilot wrote:Hi Michael,

    Good luck on your flight.

    Can't say I see much issue with your routing. Going via Kilkeel adds about 8 miles to your trip, but takes nearly 13 off your cross water part, although it may add a lot of time across Dundalk Bay if you add this directly. This compromise is a personal compromise that only you can decide on ;)

    Dublin ATC will probably ask you for an estimate of the FIR boundary since you're going across the border, so have it ready, and it will save you some brain power ;)

    I understand that you intend to do this at 7000ft. A couple of things I'd say here. Firstly I agree, go as high as you can get. In my experience Dublin ATC can be reluctant to let small aircraft climb into controlled airspace, but it helps if you let them know early that you want to climb, and your route doesn't affect the departures/arrivials that their commerical traffic is using that day. I suspect you'll be fine on that score. It also helps if you sound competent, so don't ask for 7000ft, but rather Flight Level 70 ;) Also remember your flight plan gets filed as "F070".

    A caution here too. Obviously the cloud base may not let you climb that high (looks good tomorrow) but you face one other issue here. We are in a high pressure situation at the moment, and it's been pretty stable. It's likely that Viz won't be great. 10Km viz is ok, if altogether easy, when flying over land, but it's damn hard work when flying over the sea. With 10km viz over the water, the sky and the sea can merge into one, and to all intends and purposes you might as well be in cloud...all you can see is straight down. If you're not comfortable with the conditions turn back, and wait for a day with better viz. Viz can be a very significant problem over water, on a day when it's not an issue over land. It can help to fly lower, as you don't have as much air to look through to see the surface, which can help significantly.

    Also, don't let your altitude convince you that you don't need life jackets and a life raft. There are lots of reasons why you might end up ditching, and you'll have no chance of surviving without both at this time of year.

    I don't know if you're used to flying into larger airports or now, but if you aren't then I should say that you'll need a taxi diagram, as this is how ATC will tell you where to go. You can get it by going to http://www.ais.org.uk here and registering (it's free-register as UK & Foreign States).
    Once you've logged on select, Publications from the top menu, then UK AIP, then "Go to the UK AIP", then UK AIP, then UK AIP, Aerodrome & Heliport index specific, and then Isle of Mann. The chart that you are looking for is Aerodrome Chart-ICAO. It shows all the taxiway designators. From memory the flying club (who will handle you) are somewhere close to D1.

    Also have a read of the textual data ;)

    Officially the IOM is a special branch and customs designated airport, but the flying club seems to want you to fax your GAR in advance for some reason.

    I also heard that they have a club car available for hire for ?10, but have never availed of it myself. Might be nice to get it and drive into town ;)

    Not much else I can add it that really. If you aren't used to flyin at FL70 then don't forget that you need to plan your desent! There's not much point arriving over the VOR with 7000ft to lose in 5 miles! I'd say you'll probably need a 500fpm desent starting about 15-20 miles out from the VOR to arrive over it at 3000ft....that will depend on your speed obviously!

    Have a great trip, and mind the viz! If you're not happy turn back!

    P


    Pilot, fantastic post mate :D .
    Great reading and quite beneficial for anyone planning a reasonably long trip anywhere.
    This thread should maybe be made a sticky,as theres a lot of information in there people could use on many cross country excursions :P
  • michael747
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    by michael747 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:19 pm

    Interesting, Thanks agian P.

    Maybe Mark should get Pilot to write a couple of pages for the next mag also!! Would you be interested in that Pilot? You should get onto Mark if it does tickle your fancy. I thoroghly enjoyed reading both of your posts :D

    The bloody weather today was on the VFR minimums so i didn't go anywhere........
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • Pilot
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    by Pilot » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:11 pm

    Thanks guys :oops:

    I'd be happy to write an article on this stuff for Mark, but I suspect that only a small proporition of his readership would be interested.

    It's nice to know that you guys find it useful though :D
  • YoYo
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    by YoYo » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:15 am

    Mark could set up a section from the main web site where we could create check lists 'Pilots' being the first for things to consider for International Flights. We could all comment on the lists and have them updated from time to time as new information or experience arrives.
  • pensive
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    by pensive » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:32 pm

    Good thread this.
    My suggestion would be to have a How To section to the forum so that we can continue to add relevant tips and experiences as we come across them via threads in a similar way to Pprune's How To Become A Heli Pilot sticky on the Rotorheads forum.
  • cleared to land
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    by cleared to land » Thu May 01, 2008 8:31 pm

    I'm planning to fly to the Isle of Man next week. I found Pilots advice great. The transition altitude can vary per day, but it normally at 6000ft that you change from QNH to 1013QNH
  • Pilot
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    by Pilot » Thu May 01, 2008 9:51 pm

    Thanks C2L :oops:

    In case it's of interest to anyone, I believe there another airport on IOM apart from Ronalsway. It's called Andreas, and is much cheaper! There is some info about it in this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=277926
    In particular someone has made a chart of it in post number 5.

    It's not Special branch nor customs designated, so you'd need to do the GAR froms, and some comments seem to suggest that the surface isn't great (I've never been there), but some of you might like to consider it as an option.

    P
  • michael747
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    by michael747 » Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 pm

    cleared to land wrote:I'm planning to fly to the Isle of Man next week.


    Any spare seats????
    I'm in the middle of getting signed off in a C172 and when i do i'm gonna do a good bit of touring, it would be great having seen some nternational flying before i go myself!!!
    Regards,
    M747
    :D
  • cleared to land
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    by cleared to land » Sat May 03, 2008 6:00 pm

    Sorry :cry: four aboard already. I never been to the IOM before. Does anyone have any advice about going across hight wise. The best altitude is FL70 as this keeps you clear of the ATS routes which stared at FL75. This may seen like a stupid question but I believe that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask, but if I descend to cross the IOM VOR at 3000ft I will have permission to enter the CTR but the IOM CTA overlaps the CTR at 2500 - FL65 or at least it appears to do so, do I need permission to enter both if I'm at 3000ft. They are both controlled by the same freq.

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