Page 1 of 1

Single Engine Instrument Rating

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:23 pm
by IFR
Can anybody tell me whats involved in getting a single engine instrument rating on a PPL?


Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:48 pm
by hum
If you want one on a JAA licence:

- pass the equivalent of a university degree in a series of written exams having studied on a recognised course with a recognised training organisation (usually takes a year minimum)

- do a recognised Instrument flight training course with a JAA Registered Training Organisation

- pass a flight test with an examiner

If you want one on an FAA licence:

- study the published material (in your own time if you wish) than sit and pass a test downloaded from the internet.

- do a recognised Instrument flight training course with an FAA flying school.

- Pass a test with an FAA examiner.

Overall you are looking at 1 - 2 years of almost total commitment for a JAA IR on a PPL. I have known several people get an FAA IR in 2 weeks.

To renew a JAA Instrument rating you need to pass a test with an examiner every year

An FAA Instrument Rating is valid for life if you remain current.

There are more FAA PPL instrument rating holders than all the rest of the world's PPLIRs put together....

It is no surprise that more and more private aircraft in Europe are flown within the American System...

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:13 pm
by buzz
And after all that you probably couldn't use it here except in Summer because the icing level is so low in Winter. Not to mention needing a suitably equipped aircraft with de-icing.

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:26 pm
by IFR
Thanks Guys, wheres the best place to do it? Ireland or USA? I like the idea of the IR solely as a backup. I have a JAA - PPL so an FAA IR is out.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:42 am
by OnTheNumbers
I would say you shouldn't really consider it solely as a backup. From my reading of IFR flight your safety is heavily influenced by your currency. That is to say that you should be flying IFR regularly to keep those skills sharp.

You could consider converting to an FAA PPL and doing the FAA IR. It would teach you the skills at much less cost.

Hum will be able to clarify this one. With an FAA ticket you can fly an EI reg aircraft in Ireland (no international flights) but I don't know what the position is in relation to exercising the FAA IR privileges in an EI aircraft is.

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:58 pm
by buzz
Yoi cannot exercise FAA IR priveliges in an Irish aircraft. Other than that Onthenumbers is on the numbers 8)
The only people I know with Irish or JAA PPL/IRs are aircraft owners with fully equipped aircraft. They have to do the IR test once a year to the same standard as when they first passed. One of the reasons you see so many N registered aircraft around is because it is easier to get and hold onto an FAA IR.

By all means do a JAA IR if you have the money and the time. Bear in mind too you need to do many of the CPL exams. You will never use it unless you intend to do a lot of long distance in, I repeat, a fully equpped aircraft. But I will say that any school in this country will discourage you from going down that route. If you don't believe me.. Ring one and ask.

Checking one website the cost in a single engined 172 would be:

9000 Euro

You have to pass these exams:
Air Law
Aircraft General Knowledge
Flight Performance and Planning
Human Performance and Limitations
IFR Communications
The Modular IR Theoretical Knowledge Course costs ?2,800.

Total 11,800 Euro, minimum.

If you want back up, get some lessons on instrument flying, how to fly straight and level and how to turn 180 degrees to get out of cloud. That's all you need. The real answer is not to enter cloud in the first place or stay on the ground when conditions are not suitable.

Some time ago, ! and another pilot were on our way from A to B. On the way we ran into some unforecast cloud on our route. We descended with the cloud until we hit 500 feet. The other guy turned to me and said that if it got any lower we would turn back. I agreed. In fact he didn't really need to say it all. As it happened we got through. Neither of us considered entering cloud at any time. Which was interesting because both of us had the rating.
There were several reasons for it: One we are both professional pilots and entering clould would be illegal, the aircraft was not properly equipped, we didn't have the relevant charts. But most of all it was because it would be dangerous. We might run into a hill or an aerial or someone who has just enough training on instruments to think they can fly through a cloud and get away with it or indeed hit someone on an IFR flight.

Getting an IR seems like a good idea. It is as long as you can use it a lot and stay current enough to pass a flight test every year and fly suitable aircraft As a back up it's a waste of money.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:27 pm
by IFR
Thanks for all your help. I have hared of people adding a FAA/IR to a JAA PPL is this possible?

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:58 pm
by ilovebeatups
I have heard of people adding a FAA/IR to a JAA PPL is this possible?

Not without a serious amount of effort! Contact NFC

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:03 am
by buzz
You still must pass the relevant writtens and do 15 hours partly in an approved sim and parlty in an aeroplane and then pass the the flight test.
The NFC's sim is multiengine.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:34 pm
by Lambada Crazy
If you do the 8 ATPL exams can anyone tell me, when you go to do the CPL exams do they credit you with the 8 or will you have to re-sit the 14.

E.g - I do 8 ATPL exams and finish my IR

5 years later i want a CPL and need to finish my ATPls do i just have to do the 6 more exams??? Because i heard you have 3 years after completing the exams to get your Multi IR CPL, and also you have 18 months to complete ALL ATPL exams.

Thanks, I hope ye can help me!


Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:56 pm
by Mike C

if its only as a back up you could pop across the border and do the IMC rating training. Friend of mine did this and says it was excellant. Didnt sit the test for it though.

Lambada, you're right about the time frame 36 and 18 months. But the ATPL exams cannot be split as you suggest. There are seperate IR and CPL exams. If you do the ATPL exams you need to complete all 14 before you begin any training for IR or CPL.


Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:48 pm
by IFR
Can an IMC rating be added to a JAA license. Is it necessary to have passed all IFR ATPL exams prior to starting the IFR training or can they be run side by side?

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:20 am
by buzz
No the IMC is strictly British.

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:17 am
by ilovebeatups
The IMC rating is ,unfortunately, most likely on the way out. Apparently those in JARland are pushing the CAA to abandon it!