Crash at Heathrow

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FLYbyWIT
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Post by FLYbyWIT »

Geez guys...... I guess this, I guess that....I guess yee have'nt a feckin clue so best to remain quiet and keep your ignorance in question before opening your mouth and removing all doubt ! :twisted:


Now, lock on me and FIRE................
Landing is a controlled collision with a planet.

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Post by Bearcat »

Pal of mine flew into LHR about an hour prior and said even though the wind was only 15-20kts from S S/W the turb was very very bad. On 27L at approx 400agl one can get very positive w/shear followed by negative shear.

If the Auto thrust was engaged which I think is mantdatory in BA, with positive shear it nearly puts the engines at idle and maybe it was not fast enough to compensate the neg shear and flying bug plus 5 kts .......who knows.

As the previous said pure speculation. We should know in the next 48hrs.

What I find most alarming is the Capt wheeled out in the public eye. ....I thought his SCCM was close to tears on SKY news. Very very tramuatic for the crew. They were a curly hair from not making it.

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Post by mosquito »

Cavan International!!!! Let's lobby the government
Last edited by mosquito on Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tally ho Tally ho!!!!

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Post by mark »

Initial Report AAIB Ref: EW/C2008/01/01


Accident

Aircraft Type and Registration: Boeing 777-236, G-YMMM
No & Type of Engines: 2 Rolls-Royce RB211 Trent 895-17 turbofan engines
Year of Manufacture: 2001
Date & Time: 17 January 2008 at 1243 hrs
Location: Undershoot RWY 27L, London Heathrow Airport
Type of Flight: Commercial Air Transport (passenger)
Persons on Board: Crew - 16
Passengers - 136
Injuries: Crew - 4 (minor)
Passengers - 1 (serious)
Passengers - 8 (minor)
Nature of Damage: Substantial
Information Source: AAIB Field Investigation

Following an uneventful flight from Beijing, China, the aircraft was established on an ILS approach to Runway 27L at London Heathrow. Initially the approach progressed normally, with the Autopilot and Autothrottle engaged, until the aircraft was at a height of approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down. The aircraft then descended rapidly and struck the ground, some 1,000 ft short of the paved runway surface, just inside the airfield boundary fence. The aircraft stopped on the very beginning of the paved surface of Runway 27L. During the short ground roll the right main landing gear separated from the wing and the left main landing gear was pushed up through the wing root. A significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft but there was no fire. An emergency evacuation via the slides was supervised by the cabin crew and all occupants left the aircraft, some receiving minor injuries.

The AAIB was notified of the accident within a few minutes and a team of Inspectors including engineers, pilots and a flight recorder specialist deployed to Heathrow. In accordance with the established international arrangements the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) of the USA, representing the State of Design and Manufacture of the aircraft, was informed of the event. The NTSB appointed an Accredited Representative to lead a team from the USA made up of investigators from the NTSB, the FAA and Boeing. A Boeing investigator already in the UK joined the investigation on the evening of the event, the remainder of the team arrived in the UK on Friday 18th January. Rolls-Royce, the engine manufacturer is also supporting the investigation, an investigator having joined the AAIB team.

Activity at the accident scene was coordinated with the Airport Fire and Rescue Service, the Police, the British Airports Authority and British Airways to ensure the recovery of all relevant evidence, to facilitate the removal of the aircraft and the reinstatement of airport operations.

The flight crew were interviewed on the evening of the event by an AAIB Operations Inspector and the Flight Data Recorder (FDR), Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and Quick Access Recorder (QAR) were removed for replay. The CVR and FDR have been successfully downloaded at the AAIB laboratories at Farnborough and both records cover the critical final stages of the flight. The QAR was downloaded with the assistance of British Airways and the equipment manufacturer. All of the downloaded information is now the subject of detailed analysis.

Examination of the aircraft systems and engines is ongoing.

Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.

The investigation is now focussed on more detailed analysis of the Flight Recorder information, collecting further recorded information from various system modules and examining the range of aircraft systems that could influence engine operation.

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Post by zulu10 »

FLYbyWIT wrote:Geez guys...... I guess this, I guess that....I guess yee have'nt a feckin clue so best to remain quiet and keep your ignorance in question before opening your mouth and removing all doubt ! :twisted:


Now, lock on me and FIRE................



Geez. Why do we bother having a discussion forum atall. Sure no one knows what hapenned but cant we discuss? Couldnt access pprune for the past 2 days due to overloading of ignorant pilots who havnt a feckin clue.

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Post by mr crow »

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Last edited by mr crow on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FLYbyWIT
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Post by FLYbyWIT »

O i dont know i think i have tried to share a fair bit of info on here....
Well balanced individual with a chip on both my shoulders, I'll shut up so and keep my self appointed authoratitive opinions to myself if thats how you feel!

Keep Firing ! 8)
Landing is a controlled collision with a planet.

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Post by Nanolight »

Lads the only time speculation about the cause of accidents is an issue is when it is:

a) In this country
b) A GA incident
c) Involving someone we know
and
d) If there's been loss of life.

After Eddie Goggins' unfortunate incident in Malta, a thread from this forum was basically copied verbatim into the Iish Independant. Looking at the viewcount for controversial threads such as that will confirm the vast number of hits they're getting - often well over 1000. (Salthill airshow cancellation being another one).

I don't know what passes for journalism these days, but nonetheless, this incident doesn't concern ireland or anyone on here and nobody was hurt, so as far as I am concerned - speculate away.

i reckon it was aliens. Arabic terrorist ones.
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

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Post by mr crow »

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Last edited by mr crow on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OW wright
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Post by OW wright »

If you'll excuse the pun they were literally "seconds from disaster". A few seconds later and they might have made the runway without any damage to the aircraft ,a few seconds earlier and things would have been a whole lot worse.

Thank god every one got safely.
Wright Brothers.Aviation Pioneers: Orville (1871-1948) born in Dayton ,OH and Wilbur(1867-1912)born near Millville,IN. They were the First to Fly in a powered heavier-than-air-machine ,17th Dec 1903 at Kitty Hawk ,NC.

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Post by amg182 »

Good point, What if the aircraft landed safely, and the second it does the engines fail. would brakes alone stop the plane on the runway?or would it require reverse thrusters??
Just wondering
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Post by hugoj_air »

With 3700 metres of runway in front of them, what do you think :D

Hugo.

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Post by Trigger »

A few questions...? Go easy with replies if they are a bit simple like
Is 600ft not a bit low if you are still 2 miles out ? Maybe normal glideslope I don't know.
Why no fire ?
If the engines failed to respond to manual, and auto thrust then why are there theories on windshear ? Surely the problem was mechanical not meterogical. :oops:

BTW Given the positive outcome, nobody on this forum should critiizise debate on this subject, sure ! none of us know the answer, but as aviators we should always be aware of what can go wrong, before finding out what did go wrong. :x
Open debate and opinions always enlighten the mind.



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Post by mark »

Hi trigger,

trigger wrote:If the engines failed to respond to manual, and auto thrust then why are there theories on windshear ? Surely the problem was mechanical not meterogical


At two miles we can assume that the aircraft is stabilised on final and the auto-thrust has set an engine power that will get it to the threshold of the runway. Obviously something happened that neccessitated more thrust, once such example could have been negative winshear which would require more thrust to get to the threashold. As was mentioned on a number of other forums, it's rarely one thing that causes an aviation accident, it's usually a number of different factors combined.

trigger wrote:Is 600ft not a bit low if you are still 2 miles out ?


Here's a quick maths lesson that shows you have to figure out height or distance on a glideslope. I presume you are referring to 600 AAL.

A normal glideslope is 3 degrees. So draw a right angled triangle where the horizontal part represents the ground, the vertical part represents the aircrafts height and the hypothenus represents the glidepath. Then stick in the known variables, 3 degree glide path and two miles from the runway (12,160 feet since we're looking for height in feet)

Using trigonometry: TAN 3 degrees = X (height) / 12160

Rewritten: Tan 3 degrees x 12160 = X (height)

: .052407779 x 12160 = 637ft

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Mark Dwyer
www.flyinginireland.com

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FlyingInIreland.com:- THE Resource for Irish Aviation Information

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Post by Nanolight »

It might be worth pointing out (just in anyone reading didn't know) that the Tan of an angle A of a right angle triangle is the ratio of its opposite side to adjacent side!


Image

As mark rightly pointed out, if you know the angle A (glide slope) and the opposite side (height AAL) you can work out the ajacent side rather simply!

You could also do it in your head if you didn't have a scientific calculator or log tables, by using pythagoras' therom, and indeed (correct me if |i'm wrong here) that is the way one would calculate their distance from DME.
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