Hi to all,
Flyer1 et al, I appreciate the position you found yourselves in however I do not appreciate the way in which you, rather immaturely in my opinion, put down some valid information which Bigwillie was giving you. The information being offered to you was more of an explanation as to why what happened to you did, and not the put down you seem to have taken it as. Everyone is learning all the time and it is discussions such as these which allow learning to continue. So please, do not denigrate those who attempt to clarify for you (and for all) the rules and their application.
Flight Plan Rules
Moderator: mark
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alphaLaura
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While the Irish rule is clear, a full flight plan is to be filed an hour in advance (unless impracticable) for a VFR flight any part of which is in controlled airspace - why is this?
In comparison with other European countries this is a somewhat unusual requirement. Do the other countries give a lesser service to GA as a result, or is safety thereby compromised? I don't think so.
Usually a VFR flight plan is required only for international or over-water flights.
A few countries such as Spain, Portugal, Greece, and some ex-Iron Curtain countries require a flight plan generally for every VFR flight. However the domestic flight plan details required in say Spain and Portugal are much less formal than filling up the whole standard form with route details, the colour of my liferaft, whether I have jungle equipment etc. etc. Commonly there is just a slip of paper with some very basic info.
It may be said that the Irish system in practice does not require the full flight plan form to be completed for domestic flights, if that is the case can we please have an abbreviated form for use in future?
If we have to put up with Ireland's unusual requirement, at least it should be designed for ease of use. So what has happened to filing by email? Or by text message? It would be much more convenient to just send the plan from a mobile phone, rather than searching for a working fax machine or having to call Shannon, wasting both parties' time.
In comparison with other European countries this is a somewhat unusual requirement. Do the other countries give a lesser service to GA as a result, or is safety thereby compromised? I don't think so.
Usually a VFR flight plan is required only for international or over-water flights.
A few countries such as Spain, Portugal, Greece, and some ex-Iron Curtain countries require a flight plan generally for every VFR flight. However the domestic flight plan details required in say Spain and Portugal are much less formal than filling up the whole standard form with route details, the colour of my liferaft, whether I have jungle equipment etc. etc. Commonly there is just a slip of paper with some very basic info.
It may be said that the Irish system in practice does not require the full flight plan form to be completed for domestic flights, if that is the case can we please have an abbreviated form for use in future?
If we have to put up with Ireland's unusual requirement, at least it should be designed for ease of use. So what has happened to filing by email? Or by text message? It would be much more convenient to just send the plan from a mobile phone, rather than searching for a working fax machine or having to call Shannon, wasting both parties' time.
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alphaLaura
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- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:03 pm
- Contact:
Hey.
I have never used the email address myself but this doc:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/publish ... _10_en.pdf
says on page 2, for vfr, if no aro office at departure a/d, you can email your plan to:
aisops@iaa.ie
I think the form for submitting the plan was taken down but you can still email in the correct format to that address.
I may be wrong.
Keith.
I have never used the email address myself but this doc:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/publish ... _10_en.pdf
says on page 2, for vfr, if no aro office at departure a/d, you can email your plan to:
aisops@iaa.ie
I think the form for submitting the plan was taken down but you can still email in the correct format to that address.
I may be wrong.
Keith.
Yep Phil, got it. There it is:
http://nasrav.org/wiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=21
http://nasrav.org/wiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=21
yoyo,
I dont have that problem myself because I use linux rather than windows and there are plenty of free programs to edit pdf.
Have a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PD ... n_source_3
I suspect you have windows, scribus in the multi platform section (free) looks like it might be what you want, although I have never used it.
Maybe Philip can say how he edits it on windows???
If it is too much hassle, I think if you just sent a plain old email with the correct AFTN format, that should be just as good!!!
Keith.
edit.
no I tried scribus, it saves to pdf but does not open a pdf first...
Maybe you should stick to plain text in AFTN format
I dont have that problem myself because I use linux rather than windows and there are plenty of free programs to edit pdf.
Have a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PD ... n_source_3
I suspect you have windows, scribus in the multi platform section (free) looks like it might be what you want, although I have never used it.
Maybe Philip can say how he edits it on windows???
If it is too much hassle, I think if you just sent a plain old email with the correct AFTN format, that should be just as good!!!
Keith.
edit.
no I tried scribus, it saves to pdf but does not open a pdf first...
Maybe you should stick to plain text in AFTN format
What a spin this thread has taken : HUM stated the position verily, accurately,succinctly, on page 1
A few tit-bits : the age of inevention, it seems, is still with ATC
Who remembers when the reply you got from ATC on making first call from a VFR Flight for which a PLN had been filed was "Your Flightplan is approved"
This lasted about 5 years until eventually it was realised that a disapproval would cause consternation too terrible to contemplate
(In essence there was provision for approval or disapproval)
In our own time there is a game of discarding, after due interval, VFR flligtplans filed from outside controlled airspace whether or not a cancellation, or arrival message has been entered
As everywhere agreed there is no 25 mile planning rule for flights from a controlled aerodrome with 15 mile zone
I suspecct it is because controllers might feel happier if they knew what was flying VFR or IFR up to 10 miles from them
(Before someone enlarges my throat with a jump-in landing, you do not have to file to fly under IFR outside controlled airspace whether in IMC or not
Any rated pilot with equipped aircraft may elect to make any flight under IFR - observing the IFR terrain clearance - flight levels etc. An IFR flight may be navigated entirely by visual means)
This notion has a danger as it implies that ALL flights within 25 miles of an ATC facility should have a flight plan,
Contrary to much belief the first call from a VFR flight with plan departing from an uncontrolled arodrome does not 'open' the plan. The plan is already there with a DEP time on it : the message may well update info on that time as it is difficult to become airborne within 60 secs of intent
This call is not mandatory but is excellent practice if you carry radio. and are in range of some facility
If anyone can find any mention in relevant documents about a pilot opening a PLN as opposed to filing it they will do aviation a great service
Kilkenny I would rate as the best managed Private field over the past 42 years
I am a little astonished that they have published a requiremenet to call 25 miles out - as this implies a radio
They are PPO and this may be a way of saying PPO's must be requested when 25 miles out
If they feel their field should be an all-radio one they are absolutely entitled so to require : there are few things worse than a situation where just a portion of traffic carry Radio
Maurice
A few tit-bits : the age of inevention, it seems, is still with ATC
Who remembers when the reply you got from ATC on making first call from a VFR Flight for which a PLN had been filed was "Your Flightplan is approved"
This lasted about 5 years until eventually it was realised that a disapproval would cause consternation too terrible to contemplate
(In essence there was provision for approval or disapproval)
In our own time there is a game of discarding, after due interval, VFR flligtplans filed from outside controlled airspace whether or not a cancellation, or arrival message has been entered
As everywhere agreed there is no 25 mile planning rule for flights from a controlled aerodrome with 15 mile zone
I suspecct it is because controllers might feel happier if they knew what was flying VFR or IFR up to 10 miles from them
(Before someone enlarges my throat with a jump-in landing, you do not have to file to fly under IFR outside controlled airspace whether in IMC or not
Any rated pilot with equipped aircraft may elect to make any flight under IFR - observing the IFR terrain clearance - flight levels etc. An IFR flight may be navigated entirely by visual means)
This notion has a danger as it implies that ALL flights within 25 miles of an ATC facility should have a flight plan,
Contrary to much belief the first call from a VFR flight with plan departing from an uncontrolled arodrome does not 'open' the plan. The plan is already there with a DEP time on it : the message may well update info on that time as it is difficult to become airborne within 60 secs of intent
This call is not mandatory but is excellent practice if you carry radio. and are in range of some facility
If anyone can find any mention in relevant documents about a pilot opening a PLN as opposed to filing it they will do aviation a great service
Kilkenny I would rate as the best managed Private field over the past 42 years
I am a little astonished that they have published a requiremenet to call 25 miles out - as this implies a radio
They are PPO and this may be a way of saying PPO's must be requested when 25 miles out
If they feel their field should be an all-radio one they are absolutely entitled so to require : there are few things worse than a situation where just a portion of traffic carry Radio
Maurice