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IAA Sponsoring Musicians??

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:14 pm
by Papa8
I found this webpage while trawling the internet this morning.
If this article is to be believed I find it irritating to say the least that the IAA finds it appropriate to allocate money (no matter how small) to funding a festival of youth orchestras instead of funding aviation-related seminars, shows or whatever else may be appropriate. Surely the IAA are in an awkward position to defend why it was felt that they should back something like this or is there some spin on how it can be related to aviation? Perhaps an issue that NASRAv could enquire further about the next time they meet with the IAA? We pay high-enough fees to the IAA and if they are going to spend some of that on corporate sponsorship then there has to be better ways to do this than youth orchestras?

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:39 pm
by TolTol
Glad to see that the money i paid for a piece of paper has been put to good use.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:08 pm
by GoGoGadgetGoAround
Ah come on, many companies support projects which are not industry related.

A youth orchestra? those lads put in an unreal amount of time and deserve sponsorship. I do not mind a small part of the IAA's profits going to decent cause and I'm sure a lot of others have the same opinion as myself.

Fair enough, they make a decent amount of profit and should provide aviation-related seminars, but in my opinion they are doing a decent job, it's not like there's a crisis and they're squandering profits that should be re-invested!

No way does this put them in an awkward position, it's good PR for them and that's partly why they did it, it's a commercial organisation after all.

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:46 pm
In all fairness, as someone who wants funding in aviation for youth projects and heritage interests I'd love to say I'm bothered, but from a sole trader business point of view, I give money to homeless charities, not business marketing sylibi in UCD.

It would be nice to see some of their clearly very good governmental body profits going back into aviation, but at the same time, a seminar wont earn them as much good publicity, and it certainly won't promote interest in something such as music, which most people come into contact with fair often than aircraft.


Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:17 am
by OnTheNumbers
"It's good PR for them and that's partly why they did it"

It's PR but it's not good PR. If you are going to invest money in sponsorship, there should be a strategic benefit- I fail to see where the gain is there.

Don't get me wrong, as a music lover I believe we need to nurture new talent. As qualified PR practitioner however, I am equally sure the IAA sponsorship money should be going elsewhere - Safety Award for example would be good PR for them and GA.... ... l&nid=1429

As a pilot, I'd like to see more resources going into produce timely chart updates.


Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:53 am
by buzz
The IAA is not a company like Tesco or BT. Corporate sponsorship is commonly used to increase a company's profile or simply to place it in the public view so that people will buy it's products or use it's services.

The IAA's job is as per it's mission statement to wit:

Mission Statement

The Board and Staff of the Irish Aviation Authority are committed to providing efficient and cost-effective safety regulation of the Irish aviation industry and to providing, on a sound commercial basis, safe, efficient and cost-effective air navigation services, which meet the needs of our customers.
The Authority aims to be a world leader in its field.

No more, no bloody less. It is bang out of order to be sponsoring anything outside it's remit.

I have more than a suspicion that this sponsorship deal is as a result of some high up nob in the IAA having a son or daughter involved in the music scene.

This sponsorship does nothing to increase aviation safety or air navigation services.

I for one will be making a complaint to whichever minister is in charge of aviation.

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:40 pm
by GoGoGadgetGoAround

When I say it's good PR what I'm trying to get across is that if you are already involved in aviation your snookered and have no option but to work with the IAA and for them to give an aviation seminar on safety for example then they are hitting an aviation related audience who already deal with the IAA no doubt! The PR they do for anyone in the aviation industry is by means of a good service, which it is but like everything else, it can be improved.

I do think they should do more but at the same time realise they are doing a good job and have been noted for this.

'In 1998, the IAA was awarded the first Air Navigation Service provider worldwide award by the International Air Transport Association (IATA) which represents the world's airlines. The IAA was cited as a model in terms of cost efficiency, operational effectiveness and transparency.'

Although I don't know what went on with those charts......!


It is like one of those companies in that it's a commercial business and it's doing very well for itself in terms of profits given it's competition-less position.

Your dead right as it has nothing to do with aviation and you could be right that some big wigs son is in the orchestra.

Still, I don't see anything wrong with them sponsoring a youth orchestra, they make enough profits to be able to and yes I would like them do more for industry and GA. They are doing a couple of things right now, the degree and diploma courses in business management in aviation is a definite step in the right direction and appears to be cutting the way ahead with a couple of countries wanting to set up similar courses for the industry.

If you want to or anyone else wants to write to a minister then I recommend you focus not on begrudging a youth orchestra a couple of euros, but instead push for aviation safety awards, training seminars and the like. They can do both with the profits they make.

Oh yeah, and replace the in-house cartographer...!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:32 am
by Papa8
I still do not see how music and aviation mix per se other than youth being future talent for jobs in aviation. If you want to promote the work of air traffic controllers, aviation safety and regulation as well as the aviation industry in general to youth then do it directly through for example, careers open days or aviation-related science projects, or better still bring actual air traffic controllers, pilots, airport managers/ex-managers if possible into schools to pitch these kind of jobs to people.

If you want to do corporate sponsorship and bring the Irish Aviation Authority to the masses get behind the promotion/marketing of how ATC works, advances in aircraft safety and careers in this field of aviation by having stalls at airshows, pilot training shows, or at whatever job recruitment fairs there are (the one in Croke Park comes to mind here). The IAA is a monopoly and is a professional limited liability company and I believe that efficacy and transparency has to be the main aim of a business that is able to charge whatever it likes for a license, or flight test etc. Money that the IAA spend on sponsorship should have a justified purpose and I still as I say fail to see what the point is behind sponsoring musicians.

I agree that the IAA has improved vastly in terms of services, transparency and professionalism (aside from VFR cartography) which is why I find it so surprising that no mention of this latest effort to market the IAA has appeared on its own website. I suppose I would like to see where money that I pay to the IAA goes to and yes I should really just read up on whatever public financial information there is outlining this and tempering my irritation in proportion to what I find out.

I do see also that the DAA has been sponsoring a school of music for many years without complaint so perhaps I am making a mountain out of a molehill. Overall it is no different to companies sponsoring causes worthy of their help (and also ones that won't cause any conflicts of interest) I can't help feeling however that the IAA with its large amount of specialisation as a company needs to concentrate on looking solely after fostering growth in its own industry or outside that by making strategic partnerships with organisations which at least have some overlap or perceived benefit to aviation safety and/or aviation. Forging links with classical musicians does not seem like efficient PR and return on investment.

I guess if I am not to sound hypocritical we should be asking similar questions of our private health insurance providers, car, life and house insurance companies, law and accountancy firms, politicians etc. as to why they sponsor organisations that don't necessarily have anything to do with improving their business/government too instead of lowering our premiums, fees, taxes etc. But that is obviously for another forum.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:29 pm
by buzz
The DAA is different. It deals with the general public at large. It's sponsorship of anything has to be considered in terms of useful publicity and in terms of public relations in the community. It's the same for any commercial company. Their sponsorship might bring in busines or be just good community relations. For example, a company which doesn't make consumer products might sponsor a local kids football team. It would bring them no business but does wonders for community relations.

It would be different if there was an IAA and it's rival AAI both competing for our business. But there isn't. It's a monopoly and we are it's captive customer base. I don't choose to use the IAA. I must use them. They don't need PR. They have to make a profit as mandated but does not make them a commercial company. I will be renewing soon and flying a flight test. There will be considerable costs involved. Now it seems instead of giving me value for money, part of my fee will go to sponsor a youth orchestra. If they really have so much money to give away they can reduce fees to me and to airlines using their services or use it to sponsor aviaton in this country.

As for their efficiency, well it has improved but is it really acceptable for them to take five years to update an aeronautical chart? That kind of efficiency is what you would expect of a banana republic in South America.

Let's be honest here, if any of us had the choice not to use the IAA. Would we take it? Easy answer isn't it?