COMMENTS ON THE NEW IRISH VFR MAP

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Bearcat
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Post by Bearcat »

michael747 wrote:I'm not gonna use the chart anyway - Just dont like the look of any of it, The old one will do me just fine :D :D


thats real bright to post....like our pals on 123.45 :!:

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Post by Nanolight »

I think that Michael is referring to the old(er), yet still up-to-date half mill chart which the country's GA populus have expressed a clear preference for above the newer quarter mill chart, owing to the percieved crapness, impracticality and general unsuitability for air navigaion of the latter.
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Post by michael747 »

What Nanolight said :)
Regards,
M747
:D

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THIS_IS_AIRFIELD
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Post by THIS_IS_AIRFIELD »

Donall wrote:Has anyone been able to find the charts on irishmaps.ie?


they are now available online. There is a link on the main page straight to them,

TIA

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Post by Vmax »

I am a little dissappointed with these 1:250 maps. No flight information for NI (you are asked to kindly refer to your 1:500), if I remember correctly the 1:500 was in a similar format some years back lacking this same info, only to be amended at a later date.

The back to back format doesn't make things eazy. One of the big issues for me is that some line features that you would use to navigate such as rivers, roads, and power lines just disappear between towns.

Not good.

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Post by Golf Lima Romeo »

Tsunami wipes out large section of Derry !
Check out the new 1:250000 Chart for details.

Break.

The old map had contour colour contrast that was helpful when planning journeys and alerted the pilot to relevent high ground. This chart leaves the pilot wondering what shade of beige refers to how many hundred feet. Frankly very dangerous when planning journeys near high ground.
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Post by Papa8 »

I have emailed the IAA again in a request for news on the production of the 1:500k chart. I feel yet again that it is being left to GA pilots themselves to make these representations. I applaud efforts at representation via NASRAv and NACI in general but I don't hear enough about their current and future plans.

Hi Brendan,

I received an email earlier this year (Jan 17 2008) with mention of new 1:500k charts. I took this to be 'imminent' but it seems there are still delays. The AIP lists the current VFR chart from Jun 02 as a valid aeronautical chart. The new 1:250k charts do not state they are an ICAO chart anywhere on them.

Whilst carrying the 2002 1:500k ICAO chart with me in the cockpit I am better off using the 2008 Jeppesen VFR chart. I prefer the largely white IAA 2002 chart for clarity and removal of cluttered contouring below 500ft. It also contains Scottish FIR Northern Ireland Aeronautical Information. The 250k charts let me down in these respects.

I would like to know if there is in fact a deadline in place (whether personal or official/unofficial) as to the production of these charts which are so vital to avoiding airspace infringement, avoidance of obstructions etc. I have heard that wind farm information has been one cause of delay but considering that six years have passed since the last 1:500k chart was produced I personally would be happy to settle for the information you have to hand at this point in time, publish it and then in 12 months time new information that has come to hand can be amended onto the chart. Changes that affect air safety during the interim can be NOTAMed surely.

The amount of changes to the chart since 2002 are beginning to add up with the removal of restricted airspace over NI, the adjustment to Weston's airspace, airspace around Baldonnel, new licensed aerodromes, heliports plus many other features such as wind turbines, balloon sites etc.

I have always been impressed with the efficiency of the IAA in all matters apart from VFR 1:500k aeronautical charts. There have been charts produced previously that lacked NI information, town names, incorrect runway distances etc. Obviously they have been rectified but can you give the GA fraternity any indication as to the proposed release date of a draft VFR chart with aeronautical and topographical information in the format that is intended for publication? There are many VFR pilots happy to scrutinise the charts for discrepancies for reverification by the IAA.

Kind regards,

Peter Turner
It only takes two things to fly:--- airspeed and money.

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Post by Pilot »

I emailed Brendan towards the end of May, and he said that it would be out by the begining of Oct.....that's next week :shock:

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Post by Papa8 »

I had a very useful phone call from the IAA regarding the 1:500k charts. The expected date for publication is November although as a change in airspace is being processed currently they are to make a decision this week as to whether to wait a few more weeks to cover this permanent airspace change or to just release it to the printers next week.

However some interesting details did emerge. There has not been allowance for consultation with pilots on the new chart however this was a decision that was not left in the hands of the chart staff themselves. This may not be as shocking as it first sounds. We were never consulted prior to the 1:250k consultation on chart details as far as I know and I was told the plan was to update these charts yearly from now on and that they will request submissions from the aviation public between now and the next version. I guess we have waited long enough for this and submissions from us would just delay this further. The old 1:500k chart contours were whited out below 500ft and the plan is to release two versions internally apparently one whited out below 200ft and another whited out again below 500ft. A 'few' staff with experience would then select either the 200ft or 500ft version. If you feel that for example you prefer a 200ft version over a 500ft one I guess you could still make your point heard on that.

The other thing people may want to give feedback on is apparently they are using the 1:250k base map which works great if you are of the hovering kind of aircraft and enjoy using charts that are this detailed but is often a hindrance more than a help to many fixed wing pilots. The delay in getting them out has had a lot lately to do with having to scale up topographical details and labels on the chart and which to leave in, which to leave out and which to place in a different position. I think it is a little like the decisions Google Maps make when you zoom them out. That is they leave off detail the bigger the scale. In this case the software though did not do a good job and it is being dealt with manually. The point to make here (and one I forgot to discuss at the time) is if there will still be too much detail at this scale or are some unworkable features like 'b' roads going to be left in.

They will have CAA NI aeronautical information on them which is a relief to know I guess.

The final thing is they plan to release only a laminated version, the lightest they could get from the printers.

I suggested that if they do seek responses after publication that they publish this not just on their website but also in a magazine like FII as I am certain they are missing a lot of feedback from people who do not go anywhere near an email.

I also understand that perhaps a chart centred on your local licensed aerodrome on a 1:100k scale could be produced (a little like current approach charts) and then made available for purchase to local flying clubs for local flying. These charts would seek consultation first.

Anyhow the vfrcharts@iaa.ie email is still there if you wish to make further comment before they sit down at the end of this week. I realise it is hard to do so without seeing them but the one point that the man made to me was they need feedback. That is if one person only makes the case for this or that then it doesn't hold much weight but if say 40 or 50 people make the case then that is a better situation. I guess a petition could be arranged. I happen to know NASRAv did make a submission on the 1:250k chart but I guess not this time around as it seems we have not been consulted at all on this one.
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Post by ifty »

Anyone got any updates as to when the charts will be realesed?
You pass this way but once, there is no such thing as normal. There is you and the rest, now and forever. Do as you damn well please or you could end up being a pot-bellied, hairless boring old fart.

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Post by Terry Murphy »

Hi ifty,

I’m not sure how far they are along with the job, but this is a copy of a leaked internal memo that was doing the rounds in Hawkins Hse. ten years ago. It hints at some of the huge ‘managerial’ challenges associated with such an astronomical project.

MEMO – 01/04/98

Considerations and Options re Production of 1:500.000 Aeronautical Chart

A – Draw a chart

B- Get a two-year-old to draw a chart

C- Do Nothing

D- Seek Ministerial approval for 500% increase in fees relating to item ‘C’ above

E- Order ‘Jumbo Packs’ of Jeppesen VFR/GPS charts and re-badge with IAA logo

F- Seek Ministerial approval for 500% increase to retail price of ‘NEW’ Jepp IAA chart

G- Reconsider items ‘C’ and ‘D’ above



A huge breakthrough was made earlier this year when a highly risky ‘snap decision’ was taken to implement item ‘B’ in the above memo.
This resulted in the production of two quarter-mil charts specifically tailored to cater for the many pilots still attending kindergarten and other more advanced pre-school programmes.
These two charts have gained high international acclaim for the bold use of crayon and finger painting techniques used in their execution (although some of the work was let down by the Ribena and cherry bun fight that broke out on the day they were doing the Six Counties area...and the railways...and the spot heights...and the airspace...and the...)

The half-mil will be well worth the wait, but it’s probably an idea to ‘get by’ with the Jepps for at least another decade or so.

TM :wink:

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Post by ifty »

very good. :lol:

However on a serious note anyone got any ideas?
You pass this way but once, there is no such thing as normal. There is you and the rest, now and forever. Do as you damn well please or you could end up being a pot-bellied, hairless boring old fart.

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Post by Whisky Tango »

I notice that the lower level of the narrow strip of the Dublin CTA just west of Newcasle airfield is wrong on the chart - it has it at 3500, the AIP ENR 5.2-3 has it as 3000ft, as has the Jepp VFRGPS

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Post by Papa8 »

Another phone call from Brendan this morning has let me know that the new 1:500k chart should be on sale for December from the OSI. Am sitting my written exams again in January after the first ones expired. What will be interesting is if questions will be asked based on the old chart or the new one and on old style tafs or the new style tafs.
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Post by ifty »

Ta
You pass this way but once, there is no such thing as normal. There is you and the rest, now and forever. Do as you damn well please or you could end up being a pot-bellied, hairless boring old fart.

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