FAA PPL valid in Ireland (issue put beyond doubt)

This is a forum for discussing General Aviation in Ireland

Moderator: mark

Post Reply
Lionel Hutz
Unverified User
Unverified User
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

FAA PPL valid in Ireland (issue put beyond doubt)

Post by Lionel Hutz » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:57 am

It is very unfortunate that it took an awful tradgedy for such a definitive response from the IAA

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following has been extracted from the AAIB report on the crash of EI-DOC

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pilot
Personal Details:
Male, aged 33 years
Licence:
PPL(H) issued by US FAA
Issued on 12 April 2005
Medical Certificate:
Class 2 Issued 11 April 2005


The pilot obtained his Joint Airworthiness Authorities (JAA) PPL(H), issued by the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) on 22 June 2004. The validity of his medical for this licence had expired on 20 May 2005. However, the pilot obtained his US FAA PPL (H) on 12 April 2005, and had successfully undergone a medical examination for this licence on 11 April 2005. Thus his FAA licence was valid at the time of the accident. The IAA has confirmed that this FAA licence was valid for flying EI-DOC in Ireland. The pilot also possessed a fixed-wing Student?s Pilots Licence (SPL) and was in the process of obtaining a fixed?wing PPL, having applied to the IAA for a flight test on 4 May 2005.

Pilot
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:39 pm

Post by Pilot » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:59 pm

I don't think that there was ever any question that it was valid within Ireland (assuming it had a class 2 medical....nothing mentioned in the quoted bit about that).

There is a statuatory instrument and an AIC both saying that.

The bit that is in question is

1. Is it valid with a class 3 medical (IAA say no)
2. Is it valid on an EI reg outside Ireland (IAA won't give an answer).

dp

Lionel Hutz
Unverified User
Unverified User
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Post by Lionel Hutz » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:01 pm

Indeed Pilot, but there was a body of misinformed opinion out there that the FAA PPL was not valid.

As for the 3rd class medical, Lionels opinion is that it is legal however because the IAA in their somewhat less than infinite wisdom have spoken on the issue then it would be prudent to have a 2nd class medical in your pocket.

this is not a very hard thing to comply with as the requirements are not much more stringent for a 2nd class FAA medical than a 3rd class.

There is no geographical limit placed on the validation by the relevant act of the Oireachtas. We will probably have to wait until an accident occurs with a FAA PPL flying an EI reg abroad before we get a definitive answer.

Strange how the IAA can give a straight answer to the AAIB but not to anyone else isn't it.

Pilot
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 602
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:39 pm

Post by Pilot » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:16 pm

There is no geographical limit placed on the validation by the relevant act of the Oireachtas. We will probably have to wait until an accident occurs with a FAA PPL flying an EI reg abroad before we get a definitive answer.


Agreed. There is no limit in the SI. However the SI does say "subject to such limitations and conditions as it deems fit".

It could be that that AIC is placing a limitation on that validation, or it could be that the AIC is simply a mistake.

My guess is that the AIC is a mistake and the IAA don't want to admit it, but who know! I know someone who put the question directly to them, and they got a non committed answer basically saying that they didn't know. It would be so much easier if they issued a new AIC to clarify the position beyond doubt.

P

jonkil
Verified User
Verified User
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:59 am
Location: Donegal. VFR Flight Guide IRL Page 131
Contact:

Post by jonkil » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:52 pm

Strange how the IAA can give a straight answer to the AAIB but not to anyone else isn't it.

Because they tend to make it up as it suits them !

MCRO
Unverified User
Unverified User
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:50 am
Location: Boody Foreland
Contact:

Post by MCRO » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:11 pm

Let us be fair to the IAA

Sinve 1966 They have stated clearly and consistently, as currently in Art 4 (10) of SI 333/2000, that an automatic validation to an ICAO PPL is not geographically restricted by them

IAA reticence may be due to fear that issuing State may not allow it - and IAA are not interpreters of foreign laws

The status of the FAA PPL is unusual because, for instance, the Class III Med commonly used for domestic U.S. flight is listed at ICAO (by the US) in the filing of differences, as non-compliant, and some of the provisions of FAA Class II appear also to be adrift vis-a-vis ICAO Class II

and

the US PPL no longer shows compliance with Annex 1 as it is required to do under ICAO 1.2.1 for automatic validation under the S.I.

I would say there are quite a few FAA PPL's in this part of the world, including mine, likely to need specific validation before further use here

Maurice

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 9 guests