Latest Nasty Weston Rumour

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OW wright
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Post by OW wright » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:23 pm

hello Flyer,

Flyer1 wrote:......................... it's a 2hrs 30mins drive from Dublin but a few people do it. People come from Dublin, Cork, even Donegal to fly at Waterford.


not sure if this would be a practical option for most people. flight schools tend to draw most of their students from within a hour's drive ,give or take a few minutes, of the airfield.

for students wishing to fly a couple of times a week it wouldn't be practical nor economic to have to be trawling half way across the country.
remeber it's a 2hr 30 minute drive there and back to waterford from dublin depending what part of the city and what time of the day you travel at.

i don't think people have 7 - 8 hours to spare especially during the week. when i was doing my ppl a couple of years ago at weston i was able to do my lesson's in the evening after work as the weeekends at weston are always bussy and trying to get an aircraft was never easy.

what made that possible is that weston is only about a 45 minute drive from navan.

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Post by Chaos » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:27 pm

Ye gotta place facilities where your major market demand comes from . . . ye need a facility in or around Dub CTZ. Yeah Waterford sounds grand but hey, at 2:30 commute they are losing out on where the major demand resides. Bal would be ideal but we all know Groucho Marks aka Willie O'Dea and the air scouts, opps I mean our oustanding front line air defence that is the Air Corp aka Gov. bisjet services ltd. will not allow the facilities be used by tax payers. Yet again, a beautiful display of the lack of vision of this sham of a government. Get Ryanair into Bal, it will boost growth in that area and let FTO et al have a slice of the place. Christ this bloody country drives me up the twist !!!

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Post by buzz » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:37 pm

Another Weston rumour, few of the others came true. First off, controllers going home at 5pm? What union are they in? I want to join. I must say I never heard of controllers working 9 til 5. That makes no sense. A rumour must at least be plausible. :lol:

I'm also not sure about the idea of the neighbours being less upset by the flocks of VLJ's we are supposed to be seeing soon instead of a few piston singles. Jet are noisy beasts.

With all due respect to the idea of FTO's setting up in Dublin airport. I learned to fly in Dublin in the old Iona days long when Ryanair was but a gleam in Mr Ryan's eye. It was damn near impossible then and it's worse now. I had frequent 40 minute waits. I was logging more time on the taxyway than in the air. In any case the DAA would laugh if anyone suggested setting up a school in Dublin airport. That's a non runner. Waterford is out too. 2 hours 30 minutes will take you to Galway, nearly Shannon, Belfast. There might be a potential opportunity for a field out in Meath near the M6 but imagine the cost and the objectors.

I doubt very much if the NFC or anyone else will be forced out of Weston anytime soon. In effect they run the Citations based there and supply the pilots.

Don't believe the rumours. Next time I meet KOC I'll ask him what the truth is:twisted:

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Post by Pilot » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:05 pm

Buzz,

I don't disagree with you about FTO's at Dublin airport. It simply won't happen. The RTF's are unlikely to try for FTO status, given that they are voluntary, and DAA is unlikely to let anyone else in.

However I do take acception to the mention of 40 minute delays. Maybe in Iona days, but today, that's nothing more than an old wives tale. I can not remember the last time I had a 40 minute delay.

9 out of 10 flights that I make from Dublin don't suffer as much as a 5 minute delay.

P

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Post by buzz » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:14 pm

It's no old wives tale. I was there. Delays taxying out. Delays getting fuel. Being held for over half an hour just outside the zone. I got dizzy many times circling Dunsoghly castle before 28/10 was built.
Maybe things have changed, maybe ATC are more competant at dealing with light traffic. All I know is that it was a major problem when I flew there. It is fair to say when you picked a quiet time you could get circuits but often all you got was a suggestion to call back later. In the end it drove me out and over to Weston.

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Post by OnTheNumbers » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:28 pm

I did say it was a rumour. I would have though to operate as a Class C airport that they would need enough qualified ATCOs to stay open from morning till end of VFR 7 days a week? Does EIWT have enough ATCOs with the appropriate ratings to operate more than the hours of 9-5?

It's no rumour that the airport management want to reduce training flights; they've said it openly to local residents and they've put real financial presssure on smaller operators. Given that they've already said they make more money from the jet traffic, that financial pressure can reasonably be read as an attempt to move clubs out rather that a serious attempt at raising income.

By the way, "flocks of VLJ"? Unlikely, I would have thought.

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Post by OW wright » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:33 pm

buzz wrote:............... it's worse now. I had frequent 40 minute waits. I was logging more time on the taxyway than in the air.


buzz wrote:It's no old wives tale. I was there. Delays taxying out. Delays getting fuel. Being held for over half an hour just outside the zone. ...
.

40 minute waits.....!

delays taxiing out .....!

delays getting fuel......!

being held for over half an hour outside the zone...!

When exactly was the last time you were there ?

you should know better than that , both clubs use 11/29 nearly all of the time and delays using this ruway are few and far between.in fact on a recent flight back into eidw for landing on rwy 11 i had an ATR holding while i was on approach.

so it's swings and roundabouts ,it works both ways.

there might be a slight delay if you want to get out on 10/28 but then what do you expect when you have commercial traffic landing every few minutes.

as for delays taxiing from venair over to LAP Alpha for fuel, not on less 16 /34 is active.

are you telling me you've never been delayed getting out of weston when there are three or four aircraft in the circuit?
Last edited by OW wright on Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by buzz » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:52 pm

Glad to hear it. I always believed it was actually down to ATC. Some controllers alway mixed light and heavy easily. Maybe there is a new generation of ATCO's out there. I alway found it remarkable that you could simply taxy out at a seriously busy airport like Memphis TN and be cleared straight away. Even see a line of DC9's nodding on their brakes, allowing you to pass in your little 150. Then come home to Dublin, a much less busy airport and be given a grandstand view as jet after jet roared past and be told 'too busy'.

I loved flying out of Dublin, my first solo was off the old 24, number three to a 737 and a 747 followed by a hurried circuit to get in ahead of a BA on finals and I always got a thrill when I lined up on 28. I would always pause, and enjoy the moment. Runway 28 was mine and mine alone for a brief few moments. It must feel like that when a performer goes on stage, you feel everyone is watching you. aaah!

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Post by RV BLUE » Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:57 pm

[quote="buzz"] I alway found it remarkable that you could simply taxy out at a seriously busy airport like Memphis TN and be cleared straight away. Even see a line of DC9's nodding on their brakes, allowing you to pass in your little 150. Then come home to Dublin, a much less busy airport and be given a grandstand view as jet after jet roared past and be told 'too busy'.[quote]

I've said this a number of times, if they can do it in the states they can do it there...yea people can tell me about thier rules etc...fact is it can be done....I remember EIDW too in the old days on 24 out of Iona. I dont see a problem with the schools operating out of Weston...plenty of satilight airports around big citys operate no problem under Class B,C,D... buissness jets too, no reason why it cant happen there. ....maybe the lads should take a trip to Oshkosh....ok lads no need to reply saying "thats the states"...it sure is, but, they got thier act together.....

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Post by Chaos » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:13 pm

Look guys. You can get any ideas of mixing with heavy metals out of your minds right now! The fact is the IAA, DAA, etc. suffer from "Paralysis by Analysis". These "civil servant type" institutions don't give a damn. They have neither the appitude or pragmatism to expend energy even exploring suitable workable solutions to the problems expressed by the GA community. As a few guys have said time and time again . . . ye gotta just take a look at how folks in the States manage the issues. It's not rocket science. Ultimately the IAA and the likes of the DAA are focused upon generating revenue growth. Anything that even remotely disrupts these objectives is pushed to the rear.

Active engagement and discussions are needed between the GA community and "the authorities". These sort of issues will only be resolved by people sitting down and trashing out the issues.

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Post by YoYo » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:38 pm

To get back to the point regarding Weston and it closing at 5 pm. The rumour is correct but as usual rumour is more interesting than fact. Fact is that currently there are only 2 licensed ATC personnel who can legaly only cover 10 hours of the day. Weston are currently trying to recruit a 3rd ATC person so as to extend their hours.

Its not only FTO's who will be hit by the closure. Think of all those Biz people wanting to exit Weston after a full day of meetings etc. Getting to Weston alone takes well over an hour during late afternoon so they are going to be hit just as hard as the FTO's until the ATC problem is solved.

Number of aircraft at Kilrush is over 45 not the 30 as reported earlier and we pay a lot less than 3K for the privilage.

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Post by OnTheNumbers » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:42 am

Hi YoYo,

I didn't think it was going to hit private operators; I was under the impression that Dublin can handle that out-of-hours traffic but that training was out of the question. Don't know the ATCO rating scheme so I can't clarify anymore.

Now that the Class C is active (I believe - don't have the AIPs to hand) how are operations being conducted? Are both frequencies in use GND/TWR?

It has to be said, Weston is woefully bad at communicating changes, operational or business/strategic, to its stakeholders. They really need someone looking after internal PR / communications. The changes aren't even on the website yet...... which I've just dicovered has been redesigned.

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Post by willo » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:57 am

Was in Weston Wed, last day of freedom, and signs being put up regarding Class C.

However, I havent seen any AIP Supplements or even an AIC about its introduction, only the original proposal document.

Any comments.

Brian

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Post by Pilot » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:45 am

The AIRAC's have been issued.

You can see the new airspace in the AIP which is available from the awful Eurocontrol website.

The best chart to look for is the Visual Approach Chart (VAC) for EIDW.

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Post by Fishy Business » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:52 pm

I a student pilot with very little experience in Class C airspace.

Does anybody know what the procedure/radio calls etc will be for departing/arriving Weston on a nav out west for example?

Do you need to file a flight plan?
If God had meant men to fly, he would of given them more money!

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