Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

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Trigger
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Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Trigger » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxvhqK7wyrc

This made Live Line today, guy from MACI was on correctly denouncing this gobshite......just take a look at 1:20. clearly you can see a Cessna (?) towing a banner. God Help Us.

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:44 pm

I posted about this on another forum earlier and I really don't think there was much wrong with it when you go into the details.

This is from the AIC;

ENR 5.5.4. Model Aircraft Flying
ENR 5.5.4.1 Small aircraft which weigh more than 1.5kg, without fuel, shall not be flown within 5km of an aerodrome
boundary, unless reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure the flight can be made safely.
ENR 5.5.4.2 Small aircraft which weigh more than 7.0kg, without fuel, shall not be flown:-
a. Within an aerodrome traffic zone;
or
b. Within 5km from an aerodrome boundary;
or
c. Within 2km of an aircraft in flight;
Also such aircraft, except with the permission of the IAA and in accordance with any conditions subject to
which the permission may be granted, shall not be flown:-
a. Within controlled airspace;
or
b. At a height of more than 400ft (120M) above the surface of the earth ;
or
c. For aerial work purposes;

07 APR 2011
07 APR 2011
AIRAC Amd


Have a look through his other vids on youtube, aircraft is a Parkzone Radian.

http://www.youtube.com/user/desodon#p/u/11/LnG2iS1LPDk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Foam construction, electric motor, 2m wingspan and weight of 830g. Specs are here.

http://www.parkzone.com/Products/Def...ProdID=PKZ4700" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Height of Croker is 35m from what I can see here. Very roughly he looks to be no more than twice that so say 70m/230ft.

http://www.gilroymcmahon.com/nonflash/croke.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From what I can see it's under 1.5kg so doesn't seem to be affected by legislation, but I stand to be corrected if anyone knows of other legislation covering it.

Now they said that someone could have been killed or seriously injured...

It's made of foam, weighs 830g spread over a large surface area (2m wingspan) and it even has a bendy prop that folds back... The odds of it failing coupled with the odds of it actually hitting someone if the engine failed are slim. In fact it's a powered glider so it's designed for gliding without power

Death?? I'd say a bruise would be pushing it!

*Looks like NFC's Piper Cub at 1:20
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by RV BLUE » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

The rules are much the same rules here, and I do have to say the model is miles away from the banner plane.
On the south side of the airport where I fly from there is a model field, flying small jet models among others.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/a ... gional.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not something I would worry about too much....!!
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Bearcat » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:49 am

What if it hit the cub?

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by RV BLUE » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:46 am

Only a "what if"......I'm sure there are plenty of model aircraft flying around with you every time you fly. Do some research as to where these clubs are....you'll be surprised.The damage would be minimal, apart from the "thud"

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Trigger » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:33 pm

Thanks people, on behalf of all patrons in Croke Park, the Garda Helicopter (regular visitor over Hogan Stand at 50m to 100m AGL), and the banner towing Cub, we're relieved that there is no danger in this type of model flying. I'm beginning to think I'm just a worry boots, I'll shut up so, and listen out for the thud and the possible bruise. However in fairness the IAA and EASA should at least bring out a directive how to deal with mid air thuds over 30,000 spectators, from a model aircraft ! :roll:

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:41 pm

When I first read about this I thought it was kinda dangerous, I had visions of a large and heavy, metal construction, i/c engine rocket of a model aircraft skimming the heads of fans and players... Only when looking at the details and not buying into all the red rag, silly season new stories I could see there wasn't much of a threat to anyone.

I remember a "what if" I'll never forget. At the time my sister was preparing for her upcoming driving test so I was helping her get ready. As we drove up a quiet street there was a bunch of kids playing football about 70m up the road. Usual thing happened, kids shouted "car" and they got off the road in plenty of time. After passing them she turns to me and says very seriously.. "what if I was driving up that road 1min later, I could have killed them!" After explaining that the exact same scenario would have ensued we didn't stop laughing for a good 2mins. Now the "what if" jokes are very popular between us :lol:

There's no shortage of "what if" scenarios.
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Rallye Flyer » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:16 pm

I think you'll find that "what if" scenario testing is a recognised way of increasing safety -Near miss reporting even in terms of production management is a real life example.

I'm both a PPL and a model flyer. I've seen the damage a small RC aircraft can do first hand.
Radio failure while not common in modern RC equipment still happens. Loose connections from receiver to battery (ending up in an uncontrollable model) aren't unheard of. Radio interference is a real risk especially if using slightly older equipment. Most model flying is carried out in designated areas to limit radio interference.

The likelihood of an incident being caused that day was minimal but did exist, the RC pilot, in fairness to him, did exhibit his skill, however not all RC pilots are at this level. While the model itself is a reasonably light foamie, I can't help thinking that this video will just up the ante for someone to do something a little more risky. Even in RC flying there is a generally accepted licencing system (A and B certs) that club members are supposed to adhere to. All that has been served by what happened that day is bringing to the attention of our great regulators another potential risk.

Model flyers in Ireland are in general well disciplined, have always tried to work with their flying field neighbours and this has normally been acknowledged and reciprocated by regulators. Any potential to trend toward tightening regulations caused by recklessness or perceived risk is unwelcome, will potentially reduce the areas we are allowed fly and probably cost the hobbyist in the pocket through increased insurance. I'm sure as PPL flyers or whatever we're all aware of what a pain in the ass further restrictions imposed through real or perceived risk can be.

While I know it was a larger model check out the following link
http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?id= ... G&loc=1280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by hedgehopper » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:22 pm

as someone elated to earlier on , if we all joined the "what if brigade" we wouldnt get out of bed in the morning, personally id be less worried about a model light weight glider having an engine out than for example a garda heli or a light aircraft towing a banner having an engine out over croke park, now were talking serious what if's ! chances are if the dinkey little model landed on yer noggen you would die laughin first ! see it as it is, dey do be kinda cool, might get myself one , good afternoon to you joe !

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:10 pm

Have to agree, see it for what it is... 830g of gliding foam apparently breaking no known regulations.

'Aviation experts'... claimed that 830g of gliding foam could seriously injure or even KILL someone :shock:

Now IF it was a larger, heavier model and IF it had a big ass i/c engine and IF it was going really fast and IF it had a radio/mechanical/structural failure and IF it had hit someone and IF that person was injured then that would be terrible.

The 'what if' game is never ending!

Granted "what if" scenario testing is a recognised way of increasing safety and that's why there's regulation under ENR 5.5.4. Model Aircraft Flying for models which I posted above for models that could be potentially dangerous.
But we're looking at this particular case.. 830g of gliding foam Vs Silly Season Reporters

There's a very good read on the story here;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthre ... 2056373645
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Rallye Flyer » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:52 pm

Straight from the 830g foamie manual..."always avoid flying near houses, trees, wires and buildings. You should also be careful to avoid flying in areas where there are many people".

Can't see why they wouldn't want us firing coins from the stands at players in Croker seeing as they're even lighter.

I agree, if I listened to all the what if's I'd never fly.....but I don't want what is currently light touch regulated hobby being wrecked by the actions of one individual. Considering I recently had to pay €40 for the pleasure of convincing an inspector that I've known for years that I can speak English, I fear the worst !!!!

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by stovepipe » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:55 am

When I was doing my PPL in Texas in 1991, I was out doing circuits at a small airfield one day and a large model aircraft came into the circuit and began doing aerobatics. It was one of those generic Pitts Special type models, with a wingspan of 4 to 6 feet. I completed my circuit and called it in to the tower. Another aircraft called it in and within minutes, the cops were on hand and stopped the guy. It turned out that the wind had drifted the model into the circuit and from where he was standing, it didn't appear to be doing any harm.It sure gave me cause for concern, though.
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:02 am

Rallye Flyer wrote:Straight from the 830g foamie manual..."always avoid flying near houses, trees, wires and buildings. You should also be careful to avoid flying in areas where there are many people".
Companies are always going to use that to cover their asses. Ever see the label on a hot coffee that says 'caution hot'? Everybody knows the story about a lady who bought coffee at a McDonald’s drive-through, spilled it on herself, and suffered minor burns. She sued McDonald’s, and with the help of a clever lawyer, managed to convince a jury that it was all McDonalds’ fault for not providing adequate warning that hot coffee is indeed hot, and can scald you. The lady walked away with a multi-million dollar award. :shock:
Rallye Flyer wrote:Can't see why they wouldn't want us firing coins from the stands at players in Croker seeing as they're even lighter.
If the guy had started 'glide bombing' his 830g of foam directly at the players maybe that would be comparable but he flew his gliding 830g of foam at possibly 230ft and never was he directly over Croker.
Rallye Flyer wrote:I don't want what is currently light touch regulated hobby being wrecked by the actions of one individual.


Fair point and I understand where you're coming from, I used to fly model choppers a few years ago. It is pretty bad media for modelers, your average Joe will take the media at face value and actually believe their life was in imminent danger while sitting eating their hang sangwiches in the Hogan Stand. I hope the IAA look at the facts and don't bow down to over hyped media coverage.

How did the test go? Be interested to hear what it's like.
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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by Rallye Flyer » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:28 pm

GoGoGadgetGoAround wrote:
If the guy had started 'glide bombing' his 830g of foam directly at the players maybe that would be comparable but he flew his gliding 830g of foam at possibly 230ft and never was he directly over Croker.
ah yes but did you consider the people and cars not in Croker and the little missile HD Keycam attached.
GoGoGadgetGoAround wrote:
Everybody knows the story about a lady who bought coffee at a McDonald’s drive-through, spilled it on herself, and suffered minor burns. She sued McDonald’s, and with the help of a clever lawyer, managed to convince a jury that it was all McDonalds’ fault for not providing adequate warning that hot coffee is indeed hot, and can scald you. The lady walked away with a multi-million dollar award.
The good old McDonalds coffee burn story...proof positive that one gobshite can recklessly cause massive damages.
GoGoGadgetGoAround wrote:
How did the test go? Be interested to hear what it's like.
If you're able to call normal takeoff, circuit and also Mayday calls it's a doddle.
Clear and concise is what they're looking for

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Re: Model Aircraft over Croke Park Mayo V Kerry

Post by GoGoGadgetGoAround » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:32 pm

Rallye Flyer wrote:
GoGoGadgetGoAround wrote:
If the guy had started 'glide bombing' his 830g of foam directly at the players maybe that would be comparable but he flew his gliding 830g of foam at possibly 230ft and never was he directly over Croker.
ah yes but did you consider the people and cars not in Croker and the little missile HD Keycam attached.
I was using this to counter your comparison of throwing coins at players.. We're straying big time back into the 'what if' game.
The little 'missile' of a HD Keycam is attached to the back and side of the foam with a very big surface area (2m wing span), so preceded by a few swiss cheese ifs, 'if' it did hit someone they wouldn't likely be struck by the cam first. And as a foam glider it would be unlikely to pick up any real speed to hurt someone.
Rallye Flyer wrote:The good old McDonalds coffee burn story...proof positive that one gobshite can recklessly cause massive damages.
Haha yep but thankfully only to herself, natural selection should be allowed to run it's course.. she's one rich gobshite!
Rallye Flyer wrote:If you're able to call normal takeoff, circuit and also Mayday calls it's a doddle.
Clear and concise is what they're looking for
Not so bad, often wondered surely they could have used an easier more cost efficient method instead of testing everyone.
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